I would be very upset and even if I don't abcxyz, I would remember it during your annual performance review. And the worst part is you would have to try very hard to earn my trust!
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-12(#5543942@0)
sometime he has no chocie. When you take a new job, you may be the only new guy in your team.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-13(#5545272@0)
That is true. Communication is bi-direction. So, for a manager weak in communication, one solution is to require his/her resources to be more proactive to compensate. Unfortunately, it is a very fragile model.
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14(#5545750@0)
You know the most challenging part of management in a company is how to manage your boss. Yes, a lot of them are not competent but so what. He is the one who decides your bonus, raise, promotion every year.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-14(#5545790@0)
I am not as pessimistic as you are. In my whole career in Canada, I have never seen any manager like this. So, I strongly recommend to change a team/company, unless some one want to prove himself (herself) able to please a jerk.
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14(#5547993@0)
unfortunately, my experience was the more senior the person is, the bigger a jerk he was as well. Did you ever receive an email from your CIO to ask you to prepare a report after 7 pm and expected it would be ready by tomorrow 7 am;so that he could be ready for his 9 am meeting. The meeting was scheduled with IBM over a month ago.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-14{101}(#5548130@0)
did he tell his manager he was overloaded when his manager ask him to do such emergency job? I always do and ask what jobs I should postprone.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-13(#5545267@0)
As I explained, both parties made mistakes in communication, but the manager is more responsible for addressing the issues in communication path. If you were the boss of his manager, do you think the manager is competent?
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14(#5545748@0)
All your discussion here are under the assumption that "you were NOT the boss". My point is if you were the boss, you should take the responsibility to resolve it.
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14(#5547341@0)
I used to be a system director and I reported to my department head. And if my boss told me to get the work done by end of today. I would make sure it would get done! And if it is a job impossible, I would let him know ASAP.And if I am busy so I told my manager to do it by the end of the day, I would expect it is done promptly. Very simple! There is no issuee in communication path.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-14{162}(#5547708@0)
If my manager failed to get it done, I would take full responsibiltiy of the failure but I would not trust the manager again!
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-14(#5547717@0)
Of course! And, do you care about whether he told his direct report in the morning to get it done? I guess no.
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14(#5547758@0)
In the origianl post, I read "要当天完成". I think the communication is very clear! There should be no misunderstanding!
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-14(#5547783@0)
You must forget there are many outstanding tasks which need to be finished by yesterday.
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14(#5547790@0)
if you had 5 managers and 20+ developers, I hope you could remember one of your staffs had many outstanding tasks to be completed at what day. I don't have such good memory!
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-15(#5548134@0)
If you have 5 managers, why do you micro-manage each developer?
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-15(#5548166@0)
Let me ask you this: Did the manager in the original post do what you did? NO! It's not about whether he told his boss immediately. He should follow-up and ensure it is done!
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14(#5547751@0)
who should follow up?
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-14(#5547784@0)
The manager.
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14(#5547788@0)
I don't see how your example relevant. Somehow, I feel the CIO is correct. At management level, you have to deliver results and solutions. Finger pointing to 3rd party (same as to ppl reporting to you) is not acceptable. Or,can you imagine the CIO tell the CEO that there is no solution or do you expect the CIO to find out solution by himself? You don't seem to be aware of the difference of responsibilities of job levels. You are okay with VPs acting like a developer and expect (maybe even junior) developer to be as proactive as a manager.
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-14{322}(#5547845@0)
I consider developer is a professional staff like accountant, trader, analyst and I don't like to baby sit them.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-15(#5548139@0)
Then you might end up with telling CIO that you cannot deliver on time because XXX in your team did not do what you told her to do in the morning. Do you think CIO would buy your arguments and trust you? Why should he pay you as a manager ifyou just work as a voice machine?
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-15{33}(#5548173@0)
Yes, I would take full responsibility if I failed to deliver. I don't point finger to my staff; it was always my fault if I could not manage them.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-15(#5548184@0)
I know you will as I know you were a good manager. But, what we are discussing is whether the manager in the original post (not you) handled the case appropriately. I believe you would also say no.He assumed everything would go right, ignored all risks, failed to check progress, did not manage emotion properly, and most important, did not have any action plan when failure occurred.
To be clear, I never said the assignee did not make mistakes. But, this branch was started with the assumption "you were the boss".
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-15{324}(#5548207@0)
Agree, he is not a good manager. Yelling people would not solve any problem! You may not believe me if I told you I always put 100% margain on every project I managed. In case something failed, I could still fix it.I would rather no take the project if the user is not OK with my schedule / budget!
the message I want to put here is trust can be very fragile and gone before you even notice; especially it is from your boss. I learnt this in a very painful way and I don't any Rolian follow my footstep.
I respect your effort and I am not trying to argue with you in any way. Just want to share my 2 cents worth experience.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-15{417}(#5548212@0)
so if you were the manager, how do you communicate to your workers if you want a job to be done by the end of today?
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-14(#5547712@0)
How many staffs did you manage? If I have to remind my staffs about a job that I passed over to him 4 hours ago; I would be a professional reminder. I would stop here and I just want to say it one more! We must earn the trust from our boss!Missing deadline, especially one that was just mentioned in the same day morning proved only 1 thing!
But I agree with you the manager was not professional as well. I would never yell to my staff because I don't like people yell to me!
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-15{240}(#5548150@0)
I don't think it is about reminding. One has to check progress for the tasks on one's priority list. Even when your staffs are working on the task, how do you know there is no blocks in the way? I never feel comfortable ifI don't know the status of a critical job on the day to deliver. Do you?
-majorhomedepot(马甲后的炮);
2009-9-15{73}(#5548189@0)
Yes, I agree with you. As a matter of fact, I was the one who proposed and implemented a formal project management software in my company. I didn't know how other managers could manage every project on Excel.And I had control on every deliverable, there must be a second people who check, review and signoff every work item.
However, if I only asked for a small job (e.g. prepare a report that may only take 30 minutes) and I said it must be ready today; then I am afraid I would not remind him and follow up with his status. I had high expectation on my professional staffs.
But the key message I want to sent out is "earn your trust and don't break it".
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-15{457}(#5548198@0)
If I missed the deadline of a direct order from my boss; especially the order was given in the morning of the same day; I considered it was my fault! In today business environment, multi tasking is definitely a must!If I am overloaded, I would discuss with my boss to either cut the quantity or quality. He could cut me at the end but I hate surprise so I don't want to surpirse other people. At least, I would inform him the situation. Most bosses I worked for were very reasonable!
The only time I remind 1 particular staff constantly; she was a summer student referred by another VP.
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-15{377}(#5548160@0)
westking, I hope you understand I am not here to criticize you. Your boss is not professional and has low EQ. However, I wish you to understand it takes very long time to earn the trust from your boss but 1 single failure can destroy it.I just wish you can learn from your short fall. I made a lot of stupid mistakes in my career. We may start a new thread and see who is the biggest loser!
-hkchan(0);
2009-9-15{155}(#5548181@0)