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About OS(OutSourcing)

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I recently read a book "Naked Economics" (Highly recommended), it talked about these outsourcing and various things from economics. From a society perspective, it is a good thing, just as we see most daily consumer products are made in China. We can argue those made in China products have made lots of companies go bankrupt in the world (esp. developed contries, like USA / Canada), however, as a society, both China and the develped countries are better off.

As an IT guy myself, I feel the pressure but not too worried because I had been working with Indian IT professionals for about 5 years since 2007. My general impression is that the work quality from Indian peers is far from satisfactory. There are indeed a few excellent Indian peers but that's very low percentage-wise. We even try to hire two additional local DBAs there, but we never get one after about two years interviewing tens of applicants. What I mean is down the road, every job will be competed gloablly by job-seekers. Relying on protection from government to ensure our own job stability is a bad bet.

Most Chinese immigrants are top notch guys/gals in their fields even in China, and thus should not worry about the competition. If you ever start to worry about out-sourcing, I'd say you may not be very suitable for what you are doing even without out-sourcing, and it is time to think of other ways to live your life.

As for RBC, personally, I do not think there is anything wrong in hiring foreign temporary workers because I believe if you are the CEO of RBC, you may do the same thing (to lower the operation cost and thus increase the return to all shareholders, which we could be ourselves if we have some Canadian mutual funds).更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 工作学习 / 事业与工作 / 关于外包,ba,投资和财务自由的感叹、联想等等
    • outsource继续下去的话, 影响的不仅是我们IT工, 还有各个行业,如华人地产经济,餐饮业等等; 影响的不仅是我们这一代, 还会影响我们的下一代。
      • 原来影响这么大呀。那确实很严重
    • 怎么什么新闻都跟地产有关系?wenxuecity上看liuqian那个案子开审,也提到案发地的房价并未受到影响,记者都是地产经济兼职的吧,感觉特别敏感。
    • 如果不加以阻止的话,等于掏空加拿大,马克思说的一点没错,资本家为了利益啥事情都干的出来,跟他们讲国家利益等于对牛弹琴。很多加拿大人很愤怒,对资本家最直接的回击就是关闭RBC的账户,让他失去客户,他才会感觉到疼。你就不要在这儿讲啥投资理财了,哪儿对哪儿啊。
      • 把帐户转哪去呀?你觉得哪个银行没有outsource吗?存款不能放家里吧,mortgage该贷还得贷吧?
        • 所谓杀鸡骇猴, 并不是猴比鸡老实,只不过是树个典型示范一下。
          • 如果你有一个生意,从中国进货可以减少成本一半以上,你会为了维护加拿大利益,以高价从加拿大进货吗?你会考虑你自己的收益对吧?在商言商。我觉得这件事,政府有责任,政府可以从税收等政策上利好雇佣本地员工的公司。
            • 这个我同意。 不过从RBC转走帐户, 可以让政府和其他银行感到压力, 有利于推动他们采取行动。
            • RBC,当然它倒霉,被曝光,这是一种利用临时外劳签证搞的欺骗行为,还玩文字游戏,没道歉,完全否认,可恶。如果没临时外劳签证这规定,RBC全都雇印度人,who cares.
            • 所以有进口税。
        • Credit Union
          • cbc 的评论里有至少十个提到credit union, 它好在哪?
            • 我很久没有用Credit Union了,N年前读书的时候用过,记得好处是利率比银行好,无费用。
            • Coorporative crédit union 就是account member 参与分红,都有投票权,算是互惠吧,知道的再补充吧。
            • More Canadians making the switch from big banks to credit unions? zt
            • Why credit unions could gain from shrinking direct banking market
            • 缺点是分行不多, 不太方便(N年前还没有流行网上银行服务) , 现在可以网上处理银行事务就好很多了
      • IBM做这事(事实上IBM很早就开始了在加拿大雇佣外劳)就已经打擦边球了(理由是在加拿大找不到那种高级人才),但是银行做这事就是违法和犯罪,这样会摧毁整个加拿大中产阶层的。我倒是建议把iGate,Tata,IBM赶出加拿大!
        • 当年福特开车厂的时候,就主动提高工人工资,给工人放贷款用于购买自家生产的汽车。正是由于一代美国有远见的资本家的举措,才造就了一代中产阶级,并成为了“车轮上的国家”。
    • 不同意.IT是中国很多移民从事的职业.外包将会使IT中国人失去工作.尽管这是趋势,但将自己置之其外而无所作为,实乃消极态度. RBC是个好的机会,发出声音吼一吼,会有效果的.
      • About OS(OutSourcing)
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I recently read a book "Naked Economics" (Highly recommended), it talked about these outsourcing and various things from economics. From a society perspective, it is a good thing, just as we see most daily consumer products are made in China. We can argue those made in China products have made lots of companies go bankrupt in the world (esp. developed contries, like USA / Canada), however, as a society, both China and the develped countries are better off.

        As an IT guy myself, I feel the pressure but not too worried because I had been working with Indian IT professionals for about 5 years since 2007. My general impression is that the work quality from Indian peers is far from satisfactory. There are indeed a few excellent Indian peers but that's very low percentage-wise. We even try to hire two additional local DBAs there, but we never get one after about two years interviewing tens of applicants. What I mean is down the road, every job will be competed gloablly by job-seekers. Relying on protection from government to ensure our own job stability is a bad bet.

        Most Chinese immigrants are top notch guys/gals in their fields even in China, and thus should not worry about the competition. If you ever start to worry about out-sourcing, I'd say you may not be very suitable for what you are doing even without out-sourcing, and it is time to think of other ways to live your life.

        As for RBC, personally, I do not think there is anything wrong in hiring foreign temporary workers because I believe if you are the CEO of RBC, you may do the same thing (to lower the operation cost and thus increase the return to all shareholders, which we could be ourselves if we have some Canadian mutual funds).更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
        • 我同意印度的OS对有经验有实力的国移威胁并不大, 虽然客观上拉低整个市场的Rate。
          长此以往, 如果大规模的OS去了中国,连我们都得担心,中国IT人的学习能力好过印度不是一点点。还有,他们直接拿走了加拿大新一代入行的机会,以后这里的IT业还能有竞争力吗?
          • 你可能没有经历过outsourcing。到时候不是你的能力行不行的问题,而是整个整个的line of business往外包,高手低手全部裁。当市场上充斥的找工的IT时,你会发现你的简历如同石沉大海。
            • 和能力不行的那些比, 行的自然在别的line of business机会大些, 是不是?
              • 政府制度不是为少数精英服务的,如果银行不招新人,新人如何能成为高手?如果市场变小了,高手之间的竞争也会很激烈,你确认市场非你不可?我这几年都在和OUTSOURCE打交道,雇佣外劳才是致命的.现在我在的银行部门几乎不在本地招人了, 如果你现在才进入IT市场,你就不会说这种话了
                • I am on your side. 我只是想告诉暂时不受影响的人们, 加拿大政府应该有所动作了, 否则将来加拿大还有IT业吗?
              • 当你在市场上找工作时,你敢保证你的简历就比老印的更吸引眼球?
                • (#8143516@0)
                • 在普遍OURSOURCE的情况下,华人和印度人的竞争变得越来越困难,毕竟印度人的文化和英文更好,沟通效率更高,
            • Computer science/IT 只有还有国防部/军工/NASA的RESEARCH /QUANT/IBM RESEARCH ,MS RESEARCH ,GOOLE RESEARCH 非常高短,是不可OS 的外. 其他的都可以,IBM CANADA 一般的SOFTWARE ENGINEER的活也不例外
        • As a Canadian,I think the fact replacing Canadian with temporary worker at Government or Bank is unacceptable. for normal company It is OK.
    • 这个坛子非常怪,精华贴都是搅屎贴,到CBC,CTV,CP24,GLOBAL MAIL,TORONTO STAR去看看,谁还同情RBC?
      • 骂我呢 #8140924@0
        • 加拿大市场容量有限,光提高门槛是没用的, 应该要学美国采取有限名额的方式,
        • 还在谈outsourcing?现在加拿大舆论是先解决insourcing,第一步按法律把iGate,TATA,IBM的外劳赶回去,第二步再把outsourcing的项目拿回来解决失业问题,这方面哈珀不得不向奥巴马学习。一比就差一大截。
      • 华人一盘散沙..在需要争取利益的时候总有人故作清高,惟恐别人不知道还有聪明人,华人团体多如牛毛和这种心理有很大关系
      • 加拿大每年有33万外劳,本地人都受到威胁,失业率这么高,有的人还沾沾自喜,轮到自己的时候可能哭不出声来了。
    • 我认为真正有用的是给自己地区的联邦议员写信,写的人多了政府就要开始考虑限制外包,保护本国劳动力市场的问题了.在法制国家就应该按法制国家的途径办事.