My suggestions. -huimin(huimin) @埃德蒙顿华人论坛:埃德蒙顿枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Edmonton

枫下家园 / 爱车一族 / my story of buying a new car in "toyota on front" -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-11 {2751} (#907406@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Dear Sir or Madam:
I need your judge! I need your help!
Following is my story of buying a new car from “Toyota on Front”.

I ordered a brand new car in “Toyota on Front” on 22nd November 2002 and picked up the car on 29th November 2002. After I drove back, I checked the document and found the information on “New vehicle information statement” was wrong. The vehicle # is mine but the purchaser is not me. So I called the salesperson Johnny Lu immediately and he said he would check the car history. I had an appointment the following 2 days which on 30th Nov, and 1st, Dec. and drove the car about 200km. On 2nd Dec afternoon I got the phone from salesperson Johnny lu (吕建华), he told me the story: the car was supposed to give the previous customer whose name on that statement but when the previous customer picked up the car he found the car was scratched and refuse to pick up. So the salesperson gave him another car then fixed this car and gave it to me. I told Johnny “ you should tell me when I picked up the car or disclose when I called you that day”. He is doing cheating and conflict the ethics. The salesperson and sales manager—Kim Shum then promised us we could return the car and get full amount back. I asked them to provide me another car and I would return this car right away but they said there was no same car available. So I contacted the other dealer shop finally got it from Dixie Toyota next day 3rd December. I drove the car to sign the new contract. When I planned to return the car, everything has changed from the “Toyota on Front”. They gave us an offer: charger us $1,785.95 because I used the car for 268km. And they also put “ Jenny Chen absolves any further claims towards Toyota on Front”. I answered them I can pay the amount in order to solve the problem today but I must reserve the right to further claim. But they refused.
I can’t understand it. I did nothing wrong but they charge me. First I hope resolve the problem in order to pick up my new car from Dixie Toyota. I can pay some money but I MUST reserve the right to sue them. But they force me to sign it with “absolve any further claim”. It’s unfair to me. I did nothing wrong. They are CHEATING all the time. Yes, I used the car 268km totally. But I drove the first 200km before they gave me the response and I used another 60km to sign the contract with Dixie Toyota. All the problem is they caused. I drove the last 8km to return the car. They caused the entire problem but have me to pay the amount and also have me to give up the right to further claim. I can’t lead a normal life during the past 10 days. It’s unfair to me. I need judge from you! I need help from you!

Jenny chen
December 11, 2002更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

同情，帮你up一下。 -x86(); 2002-12-11 (#907426@0)
They are all craps, that's why I don't feel like buying new cars. I always perfer used car, which I can dump it anytime I feel bored, or when it got scratched, I don't feel that bad... -collapsar(笨笨和旦旦); 2002-12-11 (#907440@0)
try to find a lawyer. i am pretty sure u can get all money back plus compensation. -zippo(子胖止胖); 2002-12-11 (#907450@0)
my thought -mssg(mssg); 2002-12-11 {158} (#907451@0)
I would have done things differently, anyway

You want to this issue with the dealer addressed ASAP, contact URL, find out what's the best way out for you.
http://www.cbs.gov.on.ca/mcbs/english/4T9V3L.htm
More information => -mssg(mssg); 2002-12-11 (#907459@0)

thanks! i will try -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#908886@0)

1,2,3 -dundas888(登达寺); 2002-12-11 {485} (#907486@0)
1) Have you signed that document with “absolve any further claim” or not? Nobody can force you to sign anything. Hopefully you have not signed.
2) It was the salesperson's fault no matter how many km you have driven.
3) You should ask for a full refund, because they did not give you the car you ordered.
4) Talk and write (fax) to the manager's boss.
5) Go to a court, you will win
6) Talk to chinese media (like newspaper). They are looking for this kind of story right now.

thank you your suggestion. i contacted "world jounal" already. they are very concern about it and they will follow it. and i didn't sign it because it's too unfair to me. rob money and also order me to shut up! -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#908870@0)

Is it the same "Johnny Lu" as this author? -olivetree(Olive Tree); 2002-12-11 (#907584@0)

yes, the same "FAMOUS" Johnny Lu. -glover(noname); 2002-12-11 {81} (#908147@0)
this story further confirmed me: NEVER trust Chinese (business) people

sigh...
yes. the same guy. act and write manner is totally different. be careful! -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#908804@0)

中国人欺骗中国人 very bad -gwh(ace); 2002-12-16 (#917234@0)

one story in US... -zippo(子胖止胖); 2002-12-11 {332} (#907612@0)
ive heard one story in US. one guy ordered a brand new bmw. but the thing is when a brand new bmw arrived the dealership, they repainted it because they found some scratch in the body. the dealer give that guy this one without noticed the change. u know what happened in court? that guy got a brand new bmw plus 3 MILLION dollars...

the point is, the coustomer was a BMW user. he had enough money and time to sue the deal with his 'professional' lawyer. now how about out this brother? -fxid(外地民工模样的人); 2002-12-11 (#907643@0)

the reason that guy sued the dealership is because he want more compensation... -zippo(子胖止胖); 2002-12-11 {204} (#907682@0)
but for our brother, all he want is just a full refund, isnt it? with all documents on hand, this case is a definite-win case. just consult with the lawyer. not all lawsuit spend lots of money and time...

i hope so. he should punch the bad dealer. -fxid(外地民工模样的人); 2002-12-11 (#907686@0)

since there's a good example ahead, why not ask help from 'professional' lawyer and ask for more compensation instead of just a refund. -glover(noname); 2002-12-11 (#908166@0)

and it doesn't hurt TRYING to be a millionaire too ;p -glover(noname); 2002-12-11 (#908202@0)

Do you know Canadian laws? THE LOSER PAYS ALL! If this case ever has to go through the court, and if you can prove to the judge that Toyota on Front is at fault, then, -1499728inc(bank); 2002-12-12 {944} (#909249@0)
not only do they have to give you full refund, but all the costs in associated with the law suit, lawyer fees, court expenses, lost time, everything plus damage. Talk to a lawyer to see if you have a solid case and evidences. You can claim everything only if you have a FULL WIN. That means that there was no wrong doing on your part at all.

My recommendation:

1. Think through the entire process, make sure that you have properly reserved all the evidences, written documents, letters, phone recording.

2. Write to the dealer that If you do not get money back in full you will sue them (demand a written response).

2. Contact Toyota head office in writing, ask them to step in to resovle it.

3. If no hope to settle out of the court, then, find yourself a lawyer, the one as good as BMW owner's.

Note: legal evidence has to be in physical material, not you said, he said. From now on, communicate with them only in writing.

有一次想去FRONT TOYOTA换油, RECEPTION态度极其恶劣, 感觉就跟你跪着请他给你换一样, 我气不过, 结果没换成. 你要打官司的话, 一定要狠敲这帮龟儿子一笔 -zhihaoxx(热爱FB的LOSER 甲); 2002-12-11 (#907640@0)
全面关注。 -rollor(Rollor); 2002-12-11 (#907666@0)
I bought it new car in TOYOTA ON FRONT in July 2002 at a lower price than that offered by other TOYOTO dealers. -liboby(三皮); 2002-12-11 {502} (#907694@0)
And I felt the service Jonny Lu offered was not bad. I consulted with him on Nov about the new car rust protection and got his response that it is unnessary. So I can identify this guy is not bad businessman.

But he is only the salesperson. Maybe your case is out of his control. Try to contact him in person when he is off work.

Meanwhile, you can contact TOYOTO head office in Canada to lodge your claim. I remember their headquater is located in Scarborough. You'd better go there in person.
实话实说啊，我的车子也是从他那里买的，那是我比较了2家TOYOTA之后，吕给了我一个最好的OFFER。他可能是真的太忙了，所以有时顾不上太多。我对他印象还是不错的，同样在WOODBINE几个香港SALES，感觉就不如吕来的实在。 -luobogao(萝卜糕); 2002-12-11 (#907822@0)

same feeling! -liboby(三皮); 2002-12-11 (#908080@0)
hands!!! -andy2060(胖胖猴-筹备新年晚会); 2002-12-11 (#908103@0)
can't agree with you. you experience only means first impression is VERY important. but from this other side, we know the REAL Johnny Lu. it's nothing to do with busyness, it's about Lu's credit. -glover(noname); 2002-12-11 (#908183@0)

and yes, the Hongkongnese salesperson is worse than LU -glover(noname); 2002-12-11 (#908191@0)
不是first impression ，我的车子是在他那里买的。 -luobogao(萝卜糕); 2002-12-11 (#908254@0)

i had the same impression about johnny lu as you when i ordered that car. but what happened later is so disappointed. you can't believe his behavior. he did know everything but cheated on me! that's the true johnny lu! -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#908841@0)
it's right under control by johnny lu. because the previous customer bought it from johnny too not the other sales. he know everything from the very beginning. as for the price -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 {184} (#909089@0)
as for the price, i said it's normal because i got the same price in Dixie toyota. i bought it first from toyota on front just because i live in downtown. it's the closest one to me.

要真有理，打官司。 -heian(黑暗㊣电池工作3小时); 2002-12-11 (#908165@0)

i will try -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#908897@0)

详细看了这位Johnny的事，才想起来我以前为买车的事打电话咨询过他。分别是晚上和白天。他人很热情，也很帮忙。当时我提出到他那里买，他还说在Hamilton就能解决，不用太麻烦。希望你能和他好好沟通一下。 -heian(黑暗㊣电池工作3小时); 2002-12-12 {94} (#910596@0)
从我的角度不觉得他是见利忘义的人，或许真有什么隐情。既然都发生了，就希望你能顺利的解决这件事。

sigh, 谁让你买Toyota？这是出了名的骗子牌子了！车不敢说，Toyota Dealer是出名的奸商。 -whom(阿土仔); 2002-12-11 (#908312@0)

right now i know. but seems too late. -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#908846@0)

my conclusion so far: -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 {1342} (#909119@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛johnny and his manger did 3 times CHEATING:
1, didn't tell me about the car when i bought it and didn't disclose it when
i called him.
2, promised me they would refund the full amount but when i returned it
eventhing has changed
3, give me the charge price offer with the " jenny chen absolve the further
claim toward toyota on front" when i asked what's the meaning of "absolve", the manager explained i can have my lawyer to further claim. since i know they cheated before, so i 'm very careful this time. i called my friend to check it in the dictionary. and the answer is totally diffent: give up the right to further claim.

my 3 times STUPID
1, shouldn't buy it from toyota on front. they are cheating too much.
2, shouldn't believe them they would refund me the full amount without the written notice.
3, shouldn't sign the 2nd contract before i got the money back from the toyota on front.

my BAD situation
1, i didn't do finacing. i paid the full amount. the money is in their hands. i 'm 被动
2, they don't allow me to return the car unless i was been charged and give up further claim towards toyota on front. i kept the car but can not drive it. i even can not pick up the new car i ordered in Dixie Toyota. i signed 2 contracts paid the money but don't have a car in fact.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

先写一封抗议信FAX给DEALER 的OWNER，然后FAX一份给TOYOTA加拿大公司总部，一定要措辞严厉，明确提出你的要求，（ROLIA有高手可以帮忙），一定要点SALESMAN和MANAGER的名. -dundas888(登达寺); 2002-12-12 {205} (#909148@0)
公司总部对DEALER都有很大的威慑力。如果欺骗行为影响到公司形象，则可能明年取消他们的DEALER资格。

没有书面的东西，对方老板也许还蒙在鼓里，还不知道你不满意呢，也不知道你的气愤和杀伤力。

You will be fine.

thank you for your concern. i will try -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#909253@0)

我个人建议啊，blackeyeblacksky (bei)请进 -luobogao(萝卜糕); 2002-12-12 {703} (#909638@0)
1。你先和吕联络，告诉他不处理的话你有向媒体爆光的权力。
2。如果他处理了，给你个满意答案的话，就算了吧，你在ROLIA暴过他的光了，也算给他过教训了。以后就放他一点生路吧。毕竟他是靠这个生活的，大家都来自大陆，给他点机会吧。
3。如果他态度强硬，不肯改正，，反正你已通知他后果严重性了。你就看着办吧。想干吗就干吧。

我因为在他那里买过车，有过2次见面(第1次去看车，第2次取车)，所以印象对他不错，也很敬佩他的奋斗精神。因为大家都知道在加拿大创业不容易，而且作SALES是最很难作的，会遇到各种各样的客人，有好的也有不好的。SALES这个工作是很受气的。吕能有今天这个SALE成绩，也说明他有不错的表现，但是人无完人，工作中难免会有失误，这是他的不对。现在你给他最后通碟吧，不给你满意答复，你就看着办。我想他一定会改正错误的。

i understand what you think. i had the same impression as you since i read his article before and talked him once. right now is not i give him a chance. my situation is really much worse than him. i am pretty pitiful! -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 {498} (#909748@0)
i told the manager: i can pay the money $1785.95 for using 268km but i MUST reserve the right to further claim on them. they rejected. they said the price can be negociated but won't less than $1000, but i have to "absolve any further claims toward toyota on front"! it's going too far! they rob me money and force me to shut up! it's going too far! i can tell you that day when i talked with the manager johnny was first motionless at last laughing. please judge for me. please do fair on me!
i'm not critical. i just described all the facts and what i thought. i wish to solve the problem as soon as possible. that's why i said i accept the charge even i am not wrong at all. but they didn't give me a chance. -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 {341} (#909822@0)
you know why? because they hold the money. they don't care my situation. they exposed 真实一面 . for you, you are the buyer, of course they do kind to you. for us, before we found the facts from the statement, i thought he was kind too. i believe if the same case happen to you, you will suffer the same as like me. that's what my 体会now.

My suggestions. -huimin(huimin); 2002-12-12 {1117} (#910158@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1. Know what you want: A) Full money back with no further claim, B). Partial money back with right of further claim. C). Full money back with right of further claim. D). Further claims with no money back. D). Partial money back with no further claim. E). No money back and no further claims. The dealership also wants to know what you want and how far you can go.

2. Key point here you concerned is your right of further claims. What are your further claims? How much (net) money will you get from further claims? What is chance you will win your further claims against the dealership? Clarify it

3. Start now, collect evidences if you want to get what you want. (Paper, documents, signatures, conversations (recorded), witness etc.)

4. Reviewing the situation and consequences, then make your move. Based what you said, bottom line is that you have pretty good chance to have your full money back (no any deductions). Doundass888’s suggestion is a pretty good idea of your first step.

5. If you want make it big, you may need talk to lawyer for professional advices. Money has the power.

Good Luck更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

i am doing all i can do these days, such as contact the "world journal" , get suggestion from lawyer, fax to the goverment office which related to solve the problem. so far, no confirm answer yet. -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 {79} (#910303@0)
as to got to the court, that will be my last choice if everything fall through.

City TV has an reporter named Silverman. He may help you. Let the dealership know first that you will talk to medium, and see the response from them. Talk to a English medium (like Star, City TV etc). -huimin(huimin); 2002-12-12 (#910555@0)

i got city tv fax number. i will fax it first. -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#910876@0)

the guy is pretty busy. it will take long time to processing. :( -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-15 (#915313@0)

what i want is full aomout back. i am tired already. if i can't get full back, i will try all ways to claim it. including have a lawyer go to court even maybe it's not worth. (the lawyer fee is pretty high) hope -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 {82} (#910536@0)
everything can getting better. thank you for your concern. thank you every reader.

#244934. FYI -mildkiller(M.K.); 2002-12-12 (#910168@0)

no interested in his article any more -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-12 (#910296@0)

true -gwh(ace); 2002-12-13 (#911597@0)

你们在争论什么呢？一些人说dealer在提供服务以便挣钱的时候的态度很好，一些人说dealer在面临可能被迫把挣到手的钱退出来时的态度恶劣，这好像本身不矛盾，而且还很一致 -soaringpig(好奇的猪); 2002-12-13 (#911836@0)

exactly -gwh(ace); 2002-12-13 (#912734@0)

I strongly support you to sue them. But get well prepared!!! -swing-boat(小船); 2002-12-13 (#913231@0)
小心这位敌勒，最高明的dealer是把你卖了，你还高兴得帮他数钱。 -strawhat(草帽); 2002-12-14 (#913888@0)

true -gwh(ace); 2002-12-15 (#916778@0)

yesterday i got the credit card bill -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2002-12-18 {305} (#923004@0)
and found "toyota on front" took me $500 deposit the day i signed the contract. but the day when i picked up the car, they said they didn't take the deposit, so that day i paid the full amount. it's trap everywhere in that dealer shop. so terrible! the problem haven't solved, the new problem coming.

my story update!! thank you for every reader attention! -blackeyeblacksky(bei); 2003-2-16 {983} (#1045510@0)
1 week before last christmas, we finally got a chance to talk with the owner of the "toyota on front". he kept saying it's easy to solved. he promised us he would send us a letter with 1) the statement of what's the size of the scratch, 2) a new "new vehicle information statement " which put my name on it, not with the previous buyer who refuse to pick up the car--please see my initial story, 3)send us $200 for compensate for their mistake
we didn't negotiate the money even our every friend think it's too cheap. what we care it's solve the problem as soon as possible. i need the car urgently.
but the terrible story happen again. 2 months passed, there's no any letter and the owner never answer our call to explain it. i can't help thinking the whole "toyota on front" is the cheating team work well so close--from owner to sales manager to the salesperson Johnny Lu(吕建华) .
Please keep an eye on that dealer! please keep an eye on that salesperson!

@Edmonton

My suggestions.

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