you have good observation... -long-river(long-river) @埃德蒙顿华人论坛:埃德蒙顿枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Edmonton

工作学习 / 求学深造 / Diploma or Degree? -- Computer Science Study in Canada -long-river(long-river); 2000-8-22 {1077} (#7004@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I have seen tons of posts here discussion diploma or degree issue.
My idea, forget deploma, go for degree. People often think deploma
is far quicker. They are wrong.

The poster, me, male, chinese, with Marine Geology background in China,
spent 1 year and 3 months in the University of Western Ontario and got
a Master Degree in Computer Science.

time: 15 months
cost: 13,000 Cad and 10 Pounds of weight

The poster didn't know any computer science before. The poster is now
working as a real IT guy. And the most benefit of degree study is the
job is there waiting for you. In canada, the Campus Hiring is so
good that you can't believe. But in Senica, you don't have such thing.

The web site of Western Computer Science is
www.csd.uwo.ca
Office Ctc: Janice

Sailor, please make this post available for those new comers. I have
seen too many people spent more money and time in Senica but didn't
get any major significant harvest. Let's help them.

Contact: wjiang@2888.com
(pay attention, I am willing to reply e-mails after Sep 15.)更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

15 months? It's even more express than a MBA. I don't believe you did learn much if you have no bachelor of CS or equivalent background. Let's see it in a couple of years, hehe. -guest:; 2000-8-22 (#7014@0)

you have good observation... -long-river(long-river); 2000-8-22 {632} (#7026@0)
let's count how many major related courses we need to take in order to
understand a field. Or how many real courses you have taken so far for
your own field. 15 or 20?

Yes, in our common sense, we need to take at least 40 courses in order
to grasp a major. In china, we have History, Physilogy, Physics....too
many that have no relation to the field at all. It is also true in
Canada.

The core course for any major are always at the number of 15 or 20. In
Western, there is a special program for those who has already had 1st
degree, so all courses you need to take are core.

The tuition is some 4500 a year.

were you talking about master degree? and the 15-20 courses you were talking about are all one-semester courses? -guest:; 2000-8-22 {411} (#7027@0)
I don't think first degree helps much, especially from China, except those from some top applied science schools and for courses for freshman year. So 25 to 30 one-semester courses in department of CS may be sufficient for bachelor degree in honours. I know people can do things in express way, but if you really want to learn something, either the good education or the time you put into it is never a waste.
by the way, at U of T, most people at CS don't take more than 3 CS courses in one semester because of the well-known course load, including one top genius who graduated with GPA 4.2x in the days when A+ was counted as 4.30. -guest:; 2000-8-22 (#7032@0)
各位GGJJ, 小弟国内文科毕业，现人在加拿大，想读加国CS Master有无可能？哪所学校有录取可能？该怎么操作？谢谢！！ -jj99(JJ); 2001-10-26 (#238451@0)

My intention is to help these NEW immigrants who need a quick solution for a good job... -long-river(long-river); 2000-8-23 {432} (#7110@0)
here the discussion changes to unrevelant concern. The bottom line is
find a job and survive first. It is different from doing acedemic
research then contribute to the development of computer science.

The new comer don't have time to wait, so they go to college. Now I
find that of same or less time, same money, they can get more if they
choose degree study. Please pay attention that I am not talking abt
acedemic issue.

Whatever, it was because the discussion was beyond your control. -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7112@0)
我是广州中山医科大学毒理学硕士，5月到TONRONTO，想尽快读电脑硕士，你是如何申请就读电脑硕士并在15个月内拿到学位的？学费不是问题。请赐教。my e-mail: helenahch@netease.com -guest:8524; 2001-2-24 (#28316@0)

I know a guy who has a Canadian MBA applied for graduate study in Uinversity of Windsor.He was accepted.But he was requir to take 11 under courses.It will take him at lease 2 years to get the master degree! -guest:how can UWO so easy?; 2000-8-23 (#7116@0)

UWO is rated number 5 and UW is rated -guest:number 24!; 2000-8-23 (#7117@0)

man, can you please take a little more of your time to write down the full name? UW could be University of Waterloo too, hehe. -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7118@0)
remember, faster doesn't mean better. and you should specify what kind of ranking you are talking about, don't mix them. -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7119@0)

That is what I am talking about -guest:how can UWO so easy?; 2000-8-23 (#7121@0)

a faster way to make money for the school? Who knows. U of Waterloo is not in same category with U of T, but it's still a decent school. The other thing is that I don't think the reputation of U of Windsor is much different from that of UWO. -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7123@0)

they are not in the same category, and big difference among different departments and research groups. -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7120@0)

As I know, even CS at Mcgill requires 8 undergraduate core courses before admitting you to Master study. -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7122@0)

UWO requires some 15 under courses before admission to graduate study... -long-river(long-river); 2000-8-23 {258} (#7125@0)
some of you seems very familiar with university education in Canada.
Let's help our new comers. Colleges and Computer Schools are cheating
their money.

... my story..finished all under courses within one year
finished graduate courses with 3 months

You are genius! What about your thesis?Normally it will take 2-3 terms. -guest:not easy.; 2000-8-23 (#7126@0)

If graduate courses can be done in 3 months, such university makes faster money than training schools! And with better title! It sounds too good to be true.The only explaination is that CS dept of UWO is smart! -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7128@0)

conclusion: the education level of UWO is very doubtful. -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7127@0)

my fast has nothing to do which university.... -long-river(long-river); 2000-8-23 {399} (#7130@0)
in fact, I can be of that speed at most canada universities. that's why
I am here to help new comers. But you guys changed my focus to
evaluate school levels. That's wrong. For new comer, ( I once was)
the biggest concern is find a decent job

Well, been enough, let's go back to my original intention and do something
for new comers, save their time and money. and show them an easy route.

Nobody has ever asked you to change your intention or goal. You are free to express your opinion and experience here, as well as us. -guest:; 2000-8-23 (#7131@0)
Thank you for your warm-hearted suggestion, long-river! -sailor(Sailor); 2000-8-23 {476} (#7137@0)
I know you feel a little disappointed because the discussion always is turned to some other aspects. Take it easy, our these friends just are interested in those topic, and as your original intention, the newcomers still benefits from your articles as well as the above discussion.

You're a warm-hearted person, long-river. We appreciate your helpful information. I hope you like this community and please feel free to join any discussions in which you're interested .

hi,longriver,i have just read ur article.i have just received my LP and will land in next months. my major isn't compu. and i want study cs in can. i am very instersting for ur experiences. could u tell me more details? -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-29 {131} (#23196@0)
what's kind degree u've got? how can i be admitted in that kind special courses? does every university have that kind of courses?

Master Of Computer Science and Deploma of Undergraduate. I should have gotten a Batchelor of Science degree if I hadn't had a sinence degree before. UWO doesn't issue second science degree at the same level. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-29 (#23204@0)

thanks for ur reply. i didn't get ur point yet. didi u apply a mature applicants ? what's the english requirements ? what do i need to take about my education backgraund ? -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-29 {152} (#23212@0)
my Email:minx_alex@yahoo.com. would y mind to send me email to tell me more details about ur experiences ? how do u improve ur English ?
Thanks a lot .

I applied as an ordinary student. My Toefl score is 630. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-29 {1107} (#23228@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I applied as an ordinary student. My Toefl score is 630. I was Batchelor of Science
when I applied.

It is very hard to improve English. The way I know works so far is to study
ENglish everyday. Other than that, except you are very rich, there is no more
effective way. But if you are rich, I can recommand you an expensive but
effective place. There you have speach scientists and experts help you.

Your English is still up to be improved. For example
"thanks for ur reply. i didn't get ur point yet. didi u apply a mature applicants ? what's the english requirements ? what do i need to take about my education backgraund" should be "Thank you for your reply.( we don't say thanks somebody,
we only say "Thanks. xxxx"). I didn't get you. ("your point yet" is unnessary)
didi u apply as a mature applicant( no s)? what are (never start your question
with what's) the english requirements ?
"what do i need to take about my education"-- don't understand.
More, you are not supposed to use any abbreviation if it is not as obvious as
"USA" or "IT".

backgraund ?更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Can you tell us: how long have you been in UWO?how many courses you have to take in order to graduate? how long it is going to take you to get your -guest:degree; 2001-1-29 (#23232@0)

1 year and 3 months. about 20 coureses. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-29 (#23234@0)

have you apply for co-operate program in UWO?is it easy -guest:to get offer?; 2001-1-29 (#23237@0)

If you have many job offers from first level companies, would you care about co-op ? I didn't pay a second to worry about co-op. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-29 (#23239@0)

What I wonder is, will company heir students who have no hand on experience? a resume of a guy from waterloo -guest:address inside; 2001-1-29 {53} (#23240@0)
http://www.student.math.uwaterloo.ca/~s4li/resume.htm

Study hard to make good scroes. no body would expect 'hands-on' experience from a student. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-29 (#23241@0)

thank you for your reply.i know my English isn't good. That's what i worry about now. -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-29 {351} (#23245@0)
I remember your major is marine and you know nothing about computer before landing.so how can u get your batchelor of computer in one year ?how can u only choose those 15 or 20 courses to study? i 've gotten a batchelor of chemical engineer in china.Can i apply the undergrad. student just like you? i think your experiences is very important for me.

Yes, you can do what I have done. Only bear in mind I am the first student in the over 100 year history of UWO that finishes so many courses during -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-29 {433} (#23250@0)
such a short period. 15 to 20 courses for Computer Science are HUGE.

I also suggest you read English formal publishes everyday from today to
improve your language sense. Your English reveals that you think in Chinese
when you use English. That's what I used to be. If there is any chance, find a
Canadian girl friend for you. Rumors said that one night with a canadian girl
worths 5 years of English learning. Believe or no.

oh,you are great ! your sugggestion is very heplful to me . By the way could your tell me what is the best way to improve my English after i landing according to your experiences? -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-30 (#23299@0)

if you can, do it according to rumors. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-30 (#23330@0)

good ideal! i will try. how abou you ?why not choose a Canadian girl griend ? it's very hard ? -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-30 (#23335@0)

because studying hard harmed my health ... -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-30 (#23339@0)

oh,sorry . just like you have said, no pain no gain . i hope i can be your friend in the future -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-30 (#23351@0)

just a joke. I was about to put some dirty reasons. good luck man. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-30 (#23378@0)

thank you ,good luck and happy new year ! -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-31 (#23468@0)

update-- JAVA courses -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-29 {675} (#23255@0)
I happened to know a guy who had a Chemical Master degree background with
absolutely no any working experience whatsoever. He spent some less than
6 months learning JAVA and got two offers in the end
one from Canada at CAD65,000
one from US at US85,000.

I was astonished when I heard about the news. His total spending
is some CAD 1,500 with 5 months period. The payback is just too high.
More, many of us lack of canadian experience, but this guy doesn't
even have chinese experience at all. He merely has never worked for
a single day. Of course, his English is good.

After pondering on his case, I ended up sending my wife to a JAVA school
instead of UWO

i see. i have some questions. JAVA is very hot now .But maybe later other technologies or languages will replace JAVA . i will layoff because i know nothing except JAVA if i learn JAVA like the guy you know ,am i right? -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-30 {56} (#23302@0)
if you decided, which will you choose ? JAVA or degree?

I have sent my wife to a JAVA school -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-30 {1033} (#23328@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛she will not only learn Java but also Unix, Oracle, C++ , and some computer
network. You can't survive if you only know a language. But Canada's job is
once in, always in. The biggest problem for us new arriviors is nobody hires
you first. Once you are in, you have plenty of time ot learn more. And computer
knowledges are related. For example, I really couldn't see much difference betwee
JAVA and C++. You will gradually be able to learn new stuffs by yourself.

Therefore, if you ask me to make a decision, my answer is go for JAVA school.
I have sent my wife there. But it also depends on your language ability. No matter
how good you are technically, if you speak broken english, you will sooner or
later be fired even if somebody hires you in the beginning. My wife speaks perfect
English.

If you ask what will be the next hot spot in IT training, the only thing I can
see is Linux Certificate. But, who knows.

In Canada, the essential to survuve is 60% English, 35% Technical, and 5% luck.
Good luck.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

i see. thank you very very much . i know what i should do . you are so kind . i hope someday i can help new comer like you. -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-30 (#23334@0)
By the way. As i knew so many peoples are studying JAVA, it's easy for me to get a job like your friend after i finish my course? will i be more competitive if i get a degree? -alexm(Alex min); 2001-1-31 (#23466@0)

a degree will certainly help you -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-1-31 {434} (#23496@0)
a lot. Learning JAVA has its risk, namely when you finish, the market has already changed.
But, I don't know when. I sent my wife to a JAVA school and then, like many others
do, pray.

A degree, on the other had, benefits you lifetime. No matter how the market changes,
as long as IT personal is in demanding, you don't need to worry too much about
the trend of any division of the market.

Make a decision isn't easy, eh?

Are you Long-river? Chang2 Jiang1? I am applying for CS master program in UWO this fall. I chose UWO only because of your ariticles, hehe, and ... -sisi(丝路花雨); 2001-2-1 {518} (#23707@0)
I am writing to some professors in UWO, but I am not sure if it helps. I remember you studied as coursework pattern there, if I also take coursework, do you think it is much easier to be admitted, or to take thesis pattern with some professor? And I am interested in data mining although I have no formal work experience in that. My undergraduate major is MIS, and only have some programming experience in databases. Do you see many possibilities that I success in the application? Thank you for your warm answers! *_*

Good luck. But please take what I said as -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-1 {905} (#23744@0)
a reference. There are 3 progarms available for graduate study.
I list them as below for your further reference

1. Thesis:: You have a supervisor. You take money from him and work for
him. Benefit, you don't need to worry about money. You can study very
slowly. Shortcoming, you may need to stay in the program for years.
Your supervisor may ask you follow him as long as possible.

2. Project:: Similiar to the thesis. difference is you work on project
instead of writing thesis. Project is usually quicker than thesis and
more practicle.

3. Courses::In my opinion, it is the best. You take 8 courses in total.
But you have no funding at all. You are on your own. You have to finish
it very quickly, otherwise, you will use up all your money.

Good luck and take my words only as reference. By the way, I will attend
the weekend gathering. If you go there, I can tell you more.

Thank you, charming wjiang! I will land Toronto by end Feb, but I have no idea about the weekend gathering. Where is it? When? i hope i can join you after my landing. *_* -sisi(丝路花雨); 2001-2-1 (#23806@0)

too late, man. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-6 (#24749@0)

Sorry, forgot one thing. Do you mean that course program is easy to be admitted for you must pay for yourself? Is it very competetive applying for UWO's CS program? -sisi(丝路花雨); 2001-2-1 (#23807@0)

yes. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-6 (#24748@0)

Sorry, I am the "Longriver". I lost the ID sometime ago. I don't know why I can't keep such a beautiful name. I will discuss that with Rolia if I can see him this weekend. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-1 {72} (#23746@0)
In the meantime, take the ugly 'wjiang' as the charming 'Longriver'.

check your mailbox of 'longriver2000@usa.net' . Your password has been sent to you. -sailor(Sailor); 2001-2-1 (#23770@0)

Thanks. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-1 (#23771@0)

I do not see any charm of Longriver, :-( and the ugly of wjiang??? Is it WU JIANG? In my memory, it is a lovely small cozy town near Su Zhou, xixi *_* -sisi(丝路花雨); 2001-2-1 (#23805@0)

Course Work is easier to get admitted. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-1 {266} (#23815@0)
If you can afford some 15k to 25k
dollars yourself, go for course work.
It is more flexible and controlable.

The weekend gathering will be hold
this weekend only. You may not be
able to take part in this time.

You are from Shanghai? I was from
TongJi.

Why you thought I am from Shanghai? I come from Jiangxi. Any TONG XIANG? *_* -sisi(丝路花雨); 2001-2-4 (#24470@0)

Because you mentioned Wu Jiang. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-4 (#24473@0)

You are so careful. Yup, I just went Suzhou and passed by Wujiang. I like Suzhou very much for it is quiet and beautiful, a good place to live when you are old. -sisi(丝路花雨); 2001-2-5 (#24495@0)

Hihi, I just saw you were arriving very soon. Good to know that. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-6 (#24747@0)

i see, could you tell me what do i need if i decide to apply the course work programe in UWO? the Tof. score? the money? and ? i think 15k or 25 k dollars is too expensive for me! -alexm(Alex min); 2001-2-4 (#24273@0)

you can get some 9000 dollars of loan from government. you need to have at least 11000 dollars. Toefl should be at least 580. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-4 (#24323@0)

oh,the 11000 dollars is US dollars or CAD dollares? i think it's not a samll number . do i have time or energy to get money by doing some part-time job if i choose the course work programme? -alexm(Alex min); 2001-2-10 (#25480@0)

It is Cad$. But you can apply for TA, Teaching Assistant. You get some 1,000 dollars a month. Good luck. -wjiang(wjiang); 2001-2-10 (#25560@0)

@Edmonton

you have good observation...

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