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@Edmonton

It's ridiculous that we have to pay attention to personal relationship, or so called "social" in here.

aiattendant(创业soho.aimoo.com)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Many Chinese guys blame that for Chinese society. But one of the first "education" a professor gave to me when I first arrived Canada is that I need to talk with people. Not only focus on work. "TALK SHIT" with people if you don't have anything serious.

The same thing in companies. The technology really does not matter that much. (It matters, but not that important as you thought) Finally who will get promoted somehow depends on your supervisor like you or not. And how others feedback on you. Every one has merits and weakness. It's all up to others on which aspects they will pay attentions.

Somehow it's up to you also. They have their RIGHTs to boast. You have yours. It's not their problem if you hold yourself up. Like most Chinese will do. That's how Chinese get famous for their hard work, no argue. However, individual will suffer and more benefits will actually slip away while actual Chinese deserve much more than a good name. (It's good thing though. I am not saying that we don't need good name. Don't take me wrong.)

Double-standard can not be avoid in real life. They will mostly notice positive side of things within their society. But does not mean they will do fare-play on minor groups. The question is who will be the dominant power of the society. So the solution is, we should try all our means to get social recognition - as a group.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
(#694888@0)
Last Updated: 2002-8-15
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 工作学习 / 事业与工作 / 我受不了啦!!! 公司里尽是些吹牛乱来的人... -anno(烦人); 2002-8-14 {1373} (#691496@0)
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛我在一家大公司IT部门做web developing team leader. 近来有个新的网站项目上马, 公司又招了新的CRM manager 和 Project manager. 技术水平都近乎无知, 偏偏权力欲比天高, 在我提出技术建议时悍然教育我"不懂我们可以送你去培训"之类, 我到是很愿意让公司出钱培训, 只是这种方式...
    诚然, 现在IT行业工作不好找, 但是希望我们华人, 尤其是大陆来的人, 一定要记住, 找工作一定要吹牛, 而且捡大的吹, 吹到所有人都信也实在是水平.
    我们的Project Manager 估计以前只是个衣厂里管女工的工头, 上了几天培训班, 属于老师都懒得骂的那种学生, 居然拿了PHD 应聘, 简历中列举了从德国到美国的一系列公司, 自称水平恶高的那种. 在论及XML 传递数据时, 居然连XML是可编程的性质都不明不白, 当我试图解释时, 居然教育我"你不可能比我更清楚的, 我曾经开发过XML标准", 这样的牛吹起来, 真是可以抹平大陆, 吹散大气层的. 当我上班时看中文的文档时, 竟然悍然宣称"上班公司时间不可以看其他东西", 我其实当时解释一下也就算了, 但被气得七窍生烟, 而这人在指责我的时候, 居然连搀杂在中文中的JNDI, LDAP 都没看出来, 更是让人火冒三丈, 当时就大吵了一场, 后来也就不了了之了.
    但是实在是气愤, 希望大家鼓励鼓励, 同时也鼓励大家一要会吹, 二要凶恶, 千万不要忘记西人文化是吃硬不吃软的. 一定要有理硬到底, 无理造道理, 退让只有受气的份. 对了, 提醒一句, 从我过去的经验, 有理时, 千万千万不要使用中国传统"不打落水狗", 一定要多打, 狠打, 打死为之, 否则一旦对方反攻, 脏水会溅一身.
    "这件事我也有不对的地方" 这类的话一旦出口, 就意味着你 死! 定! 了!
    一定要打!打!打!更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 是这样的了，有些西人从来不承认自己有不懂的东西。 -ffa500(橙色); 2002-8-14 (#691506@0)
    • take it easy. Our CIO doesn't know what TCP/IP is. -lmx(流氓兔); 2002-8-14 (#691511@0)
    • 给你讲个好玩的, 消消火. 我们部门来了个PM, 天天声称开发经验如何如何, 有一次"教训"我说:你怎么认为'AND'比'OR'的优先级别高?" -mage(馅饼); 2002-8-14 (#691512@0)
      • 正常.PM可以不懂技术,而且很多确实也不了解现在的技术 (像你说的这么低级的到还少见) ..就怕你们提到的这些PM,偏偏要从技术上找面子就太可笑了... -decentboy(黄金重装甲骑士); 2002-8-14 (#691526@0)
    • Hand on -brighter(光明使者); 2002-8-14 (#691519@0)
    • 到底是谁招这样的人进来的呢? -carelesswhisper(无心快语); 2002-8-14 (#691535@0)
    • 谢谢教诲，我终于找到失败的原因了。 -zhouweiren(土生土长&土里土气); 2002-8-14 (#691538@0)
    • 加拿大官僚主义也比较严重,有些领导不懂技术所以才有这样的问题. -sillyboy(silly); 2002-8-14 (#691554@0)
      • 其实不懂技术的manager并无不好, 但象这样不懂装懂, 乱吹牛皮的的确让人反感. -anno(烦人); 2002-8-14 (#692219@0)
    • Show your teeth when you bite, only -rounder(rounder); 2002-8-14 {649} (#691558@0)
      Your colleague seems to be insecure about his competence. Too bad he is trying to cure that by talking down others. If he is really that ignorant, he will be let go soon, I believe. Don't get upset over such people. My suggestion is to ignore his silly comments instead of fighting him directly. You have to expose his imcompetency in front of your boss and/or other co-workers, like pointing out his fault when you have a project review etc., and keep good documentation so that you alway have facts to back you up. Never even appear to get personal, if you let others feel you two have a feud, it will weaken your fact-based comment on him.
      • 高人！SHOW YOUR TEETH ONLY WHEN YOU'RE BITING！实在是高人！！！ -agm(agm); 2002-8-14 (#692661@0)
    • 感谢大家关心, 我正在积极准备甩几个严重的技术包袱给PM, 让这位自封的高手体会一下什么叫技术. 并非制造麻烦, 只是把本来我可以轻松或勉强解决的问题扔过去, 然后积极等待...:( -anno(烦人); 2002-8-14 (#692210@0)
      • 你和他们谁官儿大?怎么把技术难题交给他们? -mildkiller(M.K.); 2002-8-14 (#692276@0)
        • 简单....推说自己有几个技术问题需要向他们请教一下解决方案... -decentboy(黄金重装甲骑士); 2002-8-14 (#692283@0)
    • 哪儿都有这种人. 在下在硅谷时公司招了一个从BELL LABS出来的, 据说发表很多论文, 厉害的不得了. 开会时问了下面问题: -contact(Contact); 2002-8-14 {222} (#692326@0)
      在下: This is a CORBA server sitting on ...
      冒牌大拿: What language did you use to write this server?
      在下: Java,
      冒牌大拿: So it is a Java server.
      在下: ?...Yeah...?!
      冒牌大拿: Why do you call it CORBA server?

      倒!
      • 呵呵，你这个可以放进刚才的“课堂回嘴大全”了。。：-）） -luoboyang(萝卜秧); 2002-8-14 (#692332@0)
      • 如果context就是关于CORBA, 他的回答也说得过去啊?! -mage(馅饼); 2002-8-14 (#692379@0)
    • 强烈推荐Dilbert -hiyou(没治了); 2002-8-14 (#692386@0)
    • 支持！我和公司的Receptionist大吵一次，撕破脸皮，以后她对我的态度非常好，今天还和我客气呢。 -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-8-14 (#692390@0)
      • Receptionist都是很NICE的mm呀,怎么会?~~ -mildkiller(M.K.); 2002-8-14 (#692394@0)
        • 估计那个mm是FLG分子或台独支持者..... //kidding... -decentboy(黄金重装甲骑士); 2002-8-14 (#692405@0)
          • 我们公司的那个是一个半老徐娘的白人婆。我是唯一的中国人，好寂寞呀！ -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-8-14 (#692912@0)
      • 怎么连看门美眉也会吵一架？：）no wondering在论坛上更会当仁不让了，在我的印象里，吃技术饭的ＧＧ们和reception美眉除了见面打个招呼，根本是说不上多少话的 -fatboy(胖墩儿); 2002-8-14 (#692670@0)
        • 偶最喜欢和reception美眉聊天了，她们通常是公司里最漂亮的。 -iceman(菊花古剑和酒); 2002-8-14 (#692824@0)
    • 理解，刚上班几周已经被那些只说不做的人弄的很烦恼，咱做的成绩是他们的，汇报工作时总是他们抢先，甚至汇报还没干的工作，然后拼命催我们新来的，其实他们啥也不懂。在他们嘴里啥都简单，似乎一周就能把一个PROJECT完成。 -easyway(老树发新芽); 2002-8-14 (#692635@0)
    • If you really want to beat them, you should improve the project management skill to take his position. -trucluster(Trucluster); 2002-8-14 {291} (#692889@0)
      Why the big boss hire him instead of you to be the PM position? because no matter how good you are, you are still a techy guy.
      Once you have the skills and knowledges he has know, you will be at the position to lead him.
      Think about PMP certification instead of JSP, .NET certifications.
    • PM不懂技术非常正常，他需要的驱动项目的能力。在公司里大讲中文，看中文材料，不让人怀疑你也能。 -rayman(Rayman); 2002-8-14 {110} (#692918@0)
      不要以为自己技术比被人好就觉得别人都是笨蛋，而是应该学会应付各种各样的人；因为到哪里你都会碰到不如意的人、事。
      • 可怜又可悲. 谦虚,反醒,自责,自卑,克己...中国人要改一改了. Must argue when correct, but not quarrel. -aiattendant(创业soho.aimoo.com); 2002-8-15 (#693316@0)
        • 还是做一中国人 -eagle_no1(eagle_No1); 2002-8-15 {54} (#693420@0)
          到一新地方，学习新规则，何必学做他人，还是做一中国人！
          • Add something does mean lose all yourself. But feel free to keep your way. Only complain and act on nothing real. -aiattendant(创业soho.aimoo.com); 2002-8-15 (#694802@0)
    • 寫得好 -kew888(Richard); 2002-8-14 (#692921@0)
    • 好象武侠小说里的世外高人都是无招胜有招， 原来这里也一样！ -yunyan(云嫣); 2002-8-15 (#693436@0)
    • 看看我们单位的一个洋人做的事。个人能力有限又好吹。怎么办呢？1）混淆视听，比如把普通SERVLET程序说成是WEB SERVICE。2）浑水摸鱼把所有去年写的程序找理由再写一遍。给他指出了还是坚持不改。真拿他没办法。这里不少人说西方教育如何如何好吗？ -sillyboy(silly); 2002-8-15 {58} (#693448@0)
      这种能混的人我在国内都少见。真不知道他这些招是那里学来的。
      • 这儿教的就是怎么混的本事嘛 -pasu(InTheSky); 2002-8-15 (#693746@0)
      • Sign. It's just so common. And the problem is they got the power. -aiattendant(创业soho.aimoo.com); 2002-8-15 (#694804@0)
    • 以后丫在牛B，你就正经问问她。要我就问：“你丫知道xml标准是啥吗？” -renter(土豆条); 2002-8-15 (#693478@0)
    • It's ridiculous that we have to pay attention to personal relationship, or so called "social" in here. -aiattendant(创业soho.aimoo.com); 2002-8-15 {1383} (#694888@0)
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Many Chinese guys blame that for Chinese society. But one of the first "education" a professor gave to me when I first arrived Canada is that I need to talk with people. Not only focus on work. "TALK SHIT" with people if you don't have anything serious.

      The same thing in companies. The technology really does not matter that much. (It matters, but not that important as you thought) Finally who will get promoted somehow depends on your supervisor like you or not. And how others feedback on you. Every one has merits and weakness. It's all up to others on which aspects they will pay attentions.

      Somehow it's up to you also. They have their RIGHTs to boast. You have yours. It's not their problem if you hold yourself up. Like most Chinese will do. That's how Chinese get famous for their hard work, no argue. However, individual will suffer and more benefits will actually slip away while actual Chinese deserve much more than a good name. (It's good thing though. I am not saying that we don't need good name. Don't take me wrong.)

      Double-standard can not be avoid in real life. They will mostly notice positive side of things within their society. But does not mean they will do fare-play on minor groups. The question is who will be the dominant power of the society. So the solution is, we should try all our means to get social recognition - as a group.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

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