投诉Nissan (1) --进行中 -hjh108(刚到密市) @埃德蒙顿华人论坛:埃德蒙顿枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Edmonton

枫下家园 / 我爱我车 / 投诉Nissan (1) --进行中 -hjh108(刚到密市); 2010-11-10 {2949} (#6358481@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛买了车，发现Dealer比广告多收了钱，于是决定投诉Dealer，以下是我发给Nissan的第一封信:

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing to make a formal complaint of the treatment I received when I purchased my Nissan Rogue 2010 model on Sept 30, 2010.

I read the Nissan ad in the Toronto Star newspaper and bought a 2010 Rogue FWD S from Sherway Nissan. However when I questioned the manager about the total purchase price, the answer I got from manager Sam was "This is Nissan's ad, not my dealership's ad. If you want the car, this is the price, if not, I will sell it to another customer. Since the car is so popular, it is right now a supply and demand scenario, Do you want the car or not!" I like the car so much, so I bought the car anyway, but I do not think the price matches the ad price.

According to the ad the price should have been $20999 (freight and fees included, OMVIC fee, federal air conditioner tax and tire fee included) -- I still have the newspaper ad, they are all listed clearly there.

The only thing I figure I should pay is the paint fee ($135) and the protector plus ($199), so I was over-charged by $493.71.

Ad price

20,999.00
Freight and fees included

(OMVIC Fee $5 included

Federal air conditioner tax $100 included

Tire fee $29.2 included

135.00
Metalic paint

199.00
Protector plus

21,333.00
Total before Tax

2,773.29
Tax

24,106.29
Total including tax

I paid
24,600.00

Difference
493.71

Also on the ad, there was a $500 bonus that I could use towards accessories, snow tires and ongoing services. When I asked for an accessory list of what I could purchase, the request was denied. The dealer wanted to sell me an extended warranty and rust treatments which I have no interest in buying. Then the dealer came back and said the only choice I had was 4 oil changes and a set of winter mats. To be honest, I do not want to go back to the dealership to get my oil changes there.

The total value of the stuff I was forced to take is not even $500.

Bonus
500

200
four oil changes

50
Winter Mats

Difference
250

I like the Nissan car, but I felt I was very poorly treated by the dealership, maybe because I am a female customer?

I would like to ask Nissan to honor the ad price, and also give me choices as to what items I can choose for my $500 bonus. I never want to go back to the dealership!

Attached please find:

1. Vehicle Purchase Agreement

2. Nissan ad

Please let me know how we can resolve the issue. I will be forwarding the complaint to Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council or media if I do not hear from you within 14 days.

Thanks更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Useless. Read the fine print on the ad. It will say something like "Participating dealer". Dealer can choose not to participate. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2010-11-10 (#6358484@0)

投诉Nissan (2) --进行中 -hjh108(刚到密市); 2010-11-10 {199} (#6358515@0)
Nissan called back, and said that I have to resolve the issue with dealer. Then I submitted my complaint to ASC (Advertising Standards Canada). Also I called Nissan again and sent a 2nd mail to them.

All promotional ad in Canada if you look at them carefully will have a statement like this: participating store/dealer only. It's Canadian experience. What you are doing is useless. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2010-11-10 {201} (#6358520@0)
Unless the ad is advertised by that specific dealership, they do not need to or have to participate in Nissan's advertised price.

This virtually applies to every ad in Canada. Read the fine prints.

"Some conditions may apply" is the tricky statement in Ad, by using this statement, dealer won't be defeated unless it intends to show its courtesy。。。 -noproblem(密西洒家。o O); 2010-11-10 (#6358533@0)

Not on TV - if you seriously pursue legal actions. Also the statement is too vague to have any protection effects - esp. if the dealer did not bother to explain why that condition is met. -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 (#6361058@0)

作的好。不平则鸣。支持一个。不然不论DEALER和NISSAN都以为可以随便胡作非为而没有代价。 -flu200(圆少); 2010-11-10 (#6358601@0)
我觉得泥丧有义务给你解释清楚. 它自己不卖车, 广告当然是为Dealer做的. 它要是这么说, 哪个车厂都可以不负责任地随便放屁. 中间一定有些trick, 但是泥桑有义务给你解释. 问题是你买车前跟泥桑沟通就好了. 如果哪个DEALER跟我这么牛, 我肯定扭身找别的DEALER. -ccloafer(胸有拐点188); 2010-11-10 (#6358645@0)

The dealership is individually owned, like MacDonald, etc. They can choose to participate in the promotion or not. They are not obligated to. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2010-11-11 (#6359428@0)

楼主是对尼桑投诉，又没有对DEALER赖账。对于消费者来说，尼桑和DEALER之间到底是什么关系不关买主的事情。总公司打了广告而分销环节不能兑现，这是典型的广告欺骗。抱怨一下已经是轻的了。 -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 (#6359809@0)

Depends on what form of corporation that you are talking to. Individually owned franchises have the right to refuse participation in any promotions. -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2010-11-11 (#6360963@0)

That is irrelevant to consumers. If you study the legal cases in US/Canada, you will know fine prints on the TV screen (if they are even there) has little Cover-Your-Butt effects in protecting vendors. LZ is essentially -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 {1116} (#6361029@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛.... protesting to Nissan Canada, not the dealer in this case. A promise on TV, albeit not a binding contract, has legal bearing on Nissan if their dealer network cannot fulfill that promise at all. A few hundred dollars of course are not worth the hassle to go through class action lawsuit or whatnot. But it could be a bad publicity for Nissan. A smart company will seek ways to avoid getting into a situation like that. It is usually settled by a small monetary compensation. I think that is what LZ is looking for - regardless his/her purpose is to get some justice or simply just some money.

I personally encourage our fellow Chinese to protest when feel being mistreated. I have a hard time to understand why you have to put yourself in a commercial entities' shoes, The least they can do, is to give a reasonable explanation why they are not complying with Nissan's advertising initiative. Bad attitude and arrogance of a service provider deserve a moment of pause otherwise those dealers or companies will simply repeat the same treatment to other customers -- you and me all could be the next victim.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

第一次知道有报纸上的fine print 不作数的条款，any link？ -agreewithyou(围观中); 2010-11-11 (#6361070@0)

报纸上算数，电视上大多不算，因为没有足够时间给观众看清楚。合同上的小字其实也不一定算　－－　只要你能证明对方没给你足够时间看清楚。这是合同法近１０年来的常识，自己去古狗吧。 -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 (#6361073@0)

楼主到现在手里还拿着那张Toronto Star newspaper，读几百遍的时间都有了。较真，Nissan 100%赢，否则Nissan的律师都白吃饭了；不较真是Nissan的选择，小事化无，楼主也拿点钱回来。 -agreewithyou(围观中); 2010-11-11 (#6361097@0)

Isn't that the point? LZ gets what he feels he is entitled to and Nissan doesn't have to waste time and resource going through any legal trouble. Legally sound does not equal to business ethics. This -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 {89} (#6361109@0)
way everyone is happy and LZ is right to protest in the first place --- end of the story.

你这是无理取闹。白纸黑字的价钱，白纸黑字你自己的签字。这里做买卖的规矩是先小人后君子，自己签的合同要认帐。 -mamba(忙吧); 2010-11-10 (#6358585@0)

尼桑作小人，楼主为什么要作君子？ -flu200(圆少); 2010-11-10 (#6358606@0)

签字前怎么耍赖做小人都可以，不仅是可以而且还要提倡做小人，双方都应该争取自己的最大利益，一旦签了字，就得认帐，不能再做小人鸟。这是信用。lz跟nissan签过合同后，nissan有搞过什么小动作吗？没有。只有lz自己在搞。 -mamba(忙吧); 2010-11-10 (#6358755@0)

+1 -madog(武疯子); 2010-11-11 (#6359745@0)
签了字，就不可以投诉了？楼主按月给钱就是履行了合同。 -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 (#6359816@0)
Your theory only works when LZ and nissan dealer are considered equal. -dengdengwo(等等我); 2010-11-11 {284} (#6361083@0)
but they are not. LZ is just a normal consumer without much experience about buying cars. But nissan dealer as a pretty big company, they know every details about this business and have their lawyers. They can have lots of ways to set up the traps, it's legal but definitely immoral.

It is not a theory. It's the very basic simple principle of being fair and just of an individual or business in this community: One means what he signs. Your argument about the equality is irrelevant. -mamba(忙吧); 2010-11-12 (#6361733@0)

+1. 如此无理取闹，竟然还有这么多人支持。 -wincity(会英文的红卫兵); 2010-11-19 (#6374420@0)

I support you. Please keep us posted. -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-10 (#6358948@0)
你们没看见那个经理的态度，他是韩国人，对我一副瞧不起的样子！ -hjh108(刚到密市); 2010-11-11 (#6359621@0)

那你还买他的车？ -sunnybabby(阳光宝宝); 2010-11-11 (#6359749@0)
下次记住。遇到这种销售，缠他一共小时，拿到他的报价。然后当面对他说：我会拿这个价格到别家砍价的。至于你，甭想作我的生意。活该浪费你一小时。哈！ -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 (#6359858@0)
如果我是你，不会和这种人浪费一分钟。不过你似乎有时间和精力和他斗到底，即拿到自己喜欢的车，又出了一口气，加油！ -piggyma(猪妈妈); 2010-11-20 (#6375667@0)

I had one Nissan representative and one Nissan manager called me back today. -hjh108(刚到密市); 2010-11-11 {343} (#6360100@0)
The manager is reviewing the case. Dealer submitted to Nissan a bill of sale dated on Oct4, which is when I picked up the car. I have a bill of sale dated on Sep 30 (which is the ad time). Dealer obviously does not want Nissan to know that I actually do have a Sep30 invoice.
The case has been escalated.....let's see what will happen next.

Way to go bro! -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 (#6360159@0)

Good job! -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-11 (#6360477@0)

Good -zxying(Utrust); 2010-11-12 (#6362395@0)

楼主签字了，价格同意了，后来后悔了，错居多。还是dealer狡猾，说一句爱买不买，当场楼主就投降了。不过报纸上的价格是不作数的，又是印刷错误不负责，又是不参加等等。不明白的是广告价格就这么好？比invoice低？不太明白。 -agreewithyou(围观中); 2010-11-11 (#6360401@0)

New comer? You have no idea how important is a company to have a good image. She will win the case. -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-11 (#6360489@0)

等你理解了加拿大诸多的fine print再来教训别人吧。 -agreewithyou(围观中); 2010-11-11 (#6360886@0)

In US/Canada case laws, fine prints on TV has little meanings in protecting the vendor. Otherwise you won't see so many drug commercials warning about side effects verbally, using up so much valuable air time. -ybird(黄鸟); 2010-11-11 (#6361045@0)

I feel that you look more like a new comer. -zbt(周伯通); 2010-11-11 (#6360915@0)

support! good way to go! -spruce(toastmaster); 2010-11-12 (#6362381@0)

投诉Nissan (3) --进行中 -hjh108(刚到密市); 2010-11-19 {705} (#6373429@0)
After waited 10 days, Nissan's manager called back yesterday and said that I have to resolve the issue with dealer. I told him that it is Nissan's responsibility to communicate the marketing events with dealership, not consumers. But he is just an *****.
So today, I sent a complaint to BBB and then sent an email to an editor of Toronto Star.
BBB will forward my complaint to Nissan in 2 days.
Ellen who is the Toronto Star editor wrote right back and said she will forward the email and try to get help for me.

Then I called the Nissan manager and told him what I have done, and told him it is NOT totally money issue. I think they violate my rights as a consumer and I WILL fight for that!!!

这个不顶不算肉联人呀。。。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-19 (#6373442@0)
^^ -haihai(享受阳光); 2010-11-19 (#6373475@0)
Ding -zxying(Utrust); 2010-11-19 (#6373635@0)
ding , 加油！ -bb-grow(mumcake); 2010-11-19 (#6373653@0)
Just let you know my bad experience with BBB, I complained Budget car rental to BBB for cheating reason, after long waiting, BBB notified me that Budget didn't put back any responses, BBB can do nothing since all BBB members are voluntary。。。 -noproblem(密西洒家。o O); 2010-11-19 (#6373689@0)

Haha.....a news from Sherway Nissan......Sam who was the manager at the dealership, he was fired!!! -hjh108(刚到密市); 2010-11-19 {166} (#6373724@0)
Sam treated me very poorly, and obviously he treated other people very poorly too. I am really happy for that. The owner of Sherway Nissan will look into my file now.

就一句话：YouDaMan! -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-19 (#6373787@0)
支持！ -carlson(car); 2010-11-19 (#6373857@0)
I am happy for you too. But, how did you get the news? any details about Sam's firing? -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-19 (#6374170@0)

Are you sure the Korean Sam was fired???????????????????????? -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-20 (#6374741@0)
有一种预感，第二个“愤妈”。。。 -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-20 (#6374743@0)

good job! -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-19 (#6374452@0)

ding -780623(Saturday); 2010-11-19 (#6373965@0)
Good job! -dengdengwo(等等我); 2010-11-19 (#6374174@0)
这个要大顶特顶。 -cy.qian(短笛大魔王); 2010-11-19 (#6374344@0)
Ellen is very helpful. I sent a letter to her complaining about scam of Superior Energy (SE) last year. She responsed positively. After 2 days, the compliance officer from SE informed me that they cancelled my gas plan and refund me. 刚到密市, keep up. -sandy77(Thanks4Help); 2010-11-20 (#6374742@0)

In this case, the Ellen is most powerful person on the earth because Nissan dose not care the hundreds bucks, dose not care an after-sale complaint and even not care any legal action.....but he care Toronto Star where their Ad reside! -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-20 (#6374755@0)

ding -spruce(toastmaster); 2010-11-22 (#6378048@0)
女人认了真, 力量是可怕的. 厉害! -lylouis(天一); 2010-11-22 (#6378311@0)

"I like the Nissan car, but I felt I was very poorly treated by the dealership, maybe because I am a female customer?" 写这话，一看就是没有头脑的傻女人。 -19and9(猪，老虎，兔子？); 2010-11-20 (#6374777@0)

+1 -pacificblue(pacificblue); 2010-11-20 (#6375625@0)
你比她傻多了。真没见识。 -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-21 (#6375764@0)

我买新车，一直投诉到美国总公司，5万块的车，砍掉1万块。从来没说过这种傻话。你说谁没见识？这种傻女人，只能引起你这种傻X的共鸣。 -19and9(猪，老虎，兔子？); 2010-11-21 (#6375769@0)

Can you elaborate on why you "一直投诉到美国总公司?" -torcrab(allright); 2010-11-22 (#6377681@0)

FYI: 广告误导顾客 Rogers被要求罚款一千万 Rogers faces $10M fine over dropped-call ads
-wangqingshui(忘情水); 2010-11-21 (#6375770@0)

I bought three Nissan Cars in the past four years from Altan Nissan Woodbridge, I am very happy with the saleman and their service. PM me if you want to know the saleman name....Jun -junliw1975(tennisli); 2010-11-21 (#6375927@0)

也算是个win-win的结局 -hjh108(刚到密市); 2010-11-24 {584} (#6380497@0)
We met with Sherway Nissan's owner who reviewed the case carefully, and he offered an acceptable resolution. He apologized for the poor treatment I received from Sam -- who has been fired already. He also assured me that my future service will be better than normal (otherwise I will complain again?? lol).
As I mentioned in my previous postings, the complaint is not totally about money. it is the poor treatment and un-honored advertisement price which angried me. As a customer, I just wish I get my rights protected.

Thanks to all the support I have got from Rolia reeaders.

顶。能拿到一些补偿当然更好，就算没有，也让大家知道一个普通华人一个小女子不是好惹的，服务差口碑差一定会有麻烦，你的努力让大家都得益，好样的。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6380510@0)
请问你赢了什么? 让那个你不爽的人丢了工作?感觉他只是在尽自己的本分,告诉你愿买就买,没有强卖呀! -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6380610@0)
I am glad to hear this. Again good job! -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-24 (#6380662@0)
不顶。即使能拿到一些补偿，让大家看见了普通华人小女子 lack of judgment，无理取闹的形象，得不偿失。 -wincity(会英文的红卫兵); 2010-11-24 (#6380710@0)

同情那个sales.他所有的错就是碰到了一个难缠的顾客.圣诞节快要到了,他也许正等着钱给亲人买礼物或付房租或.... -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6380737@0)

妇人之仁是这个世界上F××UP如此之多的重要原因之一。销售虐待顾客被炒，值得同情吗？真是笑话。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6380805@0)

销售怎么虐待你了?仔细说来大家听听!那你为什么不一开始就体面地走开或就投诉他?还要买他的车给他虐待你的机会? -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6380820@0)

那是搜集证据。LOL -bdbs(不多不少); 2010-11-24 (#6380824@0)

LOL.红卫兵何在, 你们当年是不是就这么做的? -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6380828@0)

真新鲜，这车又不是那韩国佬的，楼主没准儿就喜欢这个DEALER以后SERVICE方便，凭什么要走开？韩国佬既然不懂得尊重顾客，楼主为何要懂得尊重他的JOB SECURITY?　不平则鸣，事情细节对错不是你我来判断的，但是楼主的抗议方式是本地很多人中国人最缺乏的， -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 {54} (#6381038@0)
大多数人就知道自命清高地躲，跑和忍，而不知道斗不敢斗。

你错了, 有爱斗传统的国人不在少数.这里爱斗的国人绝对是太多了而不是太少了.你有什么证据说人家SALES服务不好?仅从自己的好恶或别人的一面之词?买车要同SALES打交道的时间可不是三五分钟,你不满意服务,可要求换另一个SALE.说来说去还不是钱在做怪. -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381068@0)

你才错了，如果你不信楼主说的是实话，你又何必相信韩国佬被炒鱿鱼了？逻辑不通嘛，我们当然要在根据楼主的阐述作判断，这就是虚拟世界和真实世界的区别，不懂吗？你要完全的真实世界？欢迎去 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 {97} (#6381074@0)
调查考证。回来报告一番。

钱作怪怎么了？你很有钱吗？你要是个穷光蛋，又有什么资格来谈钱的重要性?

大家的思维很不同.话不投机半句多.看得出您好斗而斗争也是您生活一部分. 您请继续. -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381104@0)

话不投机你还跟个没完？ -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6381147@0)

没看明白，你赢了什么？就是一个道歉么？没有其他的了？ -haihai(享受阳光); 2010-11-24 (#6380775@0)

树活一张皮，人活一口气。LZ赢了一口气，就是最大的win。 -bdbs(不多不少); 2010-11-24 (#6380823@0)

楼主最开始的帖子上列的价格的区别，如果没区别，他也不会去折腾这么久，最后人家道歉了，但是没退钱，lz的目的不是没达到么，怎么算赢呢 -haihai(享受阳光); 2010-11-24 (#6381029@0)

嗟！来食。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6381045@0)
LZ不差钱，就是气不过那manager而已。 -bdbs(不多不少); 2010-11-24 (#6381050@0)

大概是要求便宜而没得到才气不过吧.俺要是SALES, 俺被人缠到最后也只能说这是能给的最低价钱,您买不买随意. -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381085@0)

呵呵，有些人，斗争的勇气是欠奉的，揣摩起别人，却从不惮以最恶毒的方式。怯懦而阴狭，莫此为甚。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6381102@0)

现在全世界都在看中国的脸色了,您还要喊和外人斗斗斗,您有想过为什么别人不尊重您?难道是您软弱别人才来欺负您? -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381117@0)

别人为什么欺负LZ咱不知道，咱不是韩国佬。但是既然我看人下菜碟欺负得手顺了，看见你这样的我也忍不住先欺负欺负，这就是人丑恶的一面。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6381140@0)

我好害怕呀, 就象踩到了那啥啥啥.吓得我都闪了,,您继续您网上网下的斗争生活. -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381249@0)

呵呵，除了闪，你还会啥呢？闪远点那就。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6381280@0)
今天在这里的实践让告诉我遇到那啥啥,如果不想被它恶心到离它远点是唯一明智之举. -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381300@0)

那我就把你当个那啥给放了吧。不送。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6381340@0)

以中国当今如此强国,你却受着来自外人的与国力极不相称的蔑视.有没有想过为什么?设想一下让你心灵扭曲至此和养成如此好斗性格的环境根源, 真替你难过,你受到太多磨难了. -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381349@0)

您真善良!!!!因一己之愿没满足,直接搞得别人丢掉饭碗还沾沾自喜. 希望您永远好踩. 若有人因俺丢掉饭碗俺会内疚的. 遇到小人,俺避开, 就象现在. -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381122@0)

screw him - if he likes to screw customer. you get "rewarded" for what you did. it is only fair. -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6381132@0)

什么时候zbird也出来逛逛啊！！让大家长长见识！！！ -fanren115(cs235); 2010-11-24 (#6381431@0)

Win-win? What do you win? Some words? It is true that the dealer won because they lose nothing but offering some meaningless words in this case. For me, I prefer to get some money instead of having the salesman fired. -bonjour(铁水掌上飘); 2010-11-24 (#6380779@0)

好好看看楼主写的她没说没拿到钱啊 -wolves(酸梅汤); 2010-11-24 (#6381137@0)

要我估计，大概是拿到一些好处，但是车行不希望LZ公开。如果是这样，不公开也是对的，人家既然改为以诚相待了，那LZ就没必要自毁承诺。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-24 (#6381153@0)
她没说没拿到钱，你就认为，或者别人就该假设她拿到钱了？我只是针对她的贴子，看不出她赢了什么，被几句好话打发了而已。 -bonjour(铁水掌上飘); 2010-11-24 (#6381370@0)

她觉得赢了是因为她泻了私愤.不过我觉得她输在了良心:害人家SALES丢了工作.从头看了一遍帖,真没看出那个SALES做错了什么. -srain(rain); 2010-11-24 (#6381373@0)

define 良心。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 (#6382553@0)

不错，支持。 -leonardmars(小马识途); 2010-11-24 (#6381005@0)
也算是个win-win的结局 --explanations -hjh108(刚到密市); 2010-11-25 {1031} (#6382312@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Thanks everybody for supporting again! To be honest, I did not expect that many replies yesterday when I posted my thread.

Explanation 1 : It is not ME who get the manager fired. According to the owner, the manager has always been a trouble to the dealership. When I met the owner, I was going to demonstrate how I was treated by the manager, the owner said "I know, I know, he is always a trouble".......the owner is also a Korean, he is really nice. From the look, he is in his 20s, understands business and understands how important the customer relationship means to a company.

Explanation 2: I did get compensation from both dealership and Nissan Canada. Nobody instructed whether I should or should not release the amount. It is my opinion that it is not a good idea to publish the amount in the forum.

Explanation 3: BBB (Better Business Bureau) and Ellen from Toronto Star did help in this case. ASC (Advertising Standard Canada) is a joke.

As a customer, if you think you are not treated fairly, speak up!更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Good for you. Thanks for sharing - hope this will shut up some people upstairs. -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 (#6382441@0)
Sam的行为是car sales的惯技，仅仅因为你的抱怨就被fire是违背常理的。他被fire也许是owner对你的安慰说辞，也许是他长期以来真的很trouble而真被fire了。从我的角度，任何如此傲慢和粗鲁地歧视中国人的人都deserve最大的惩罚。不要同情那个korean Sam！ -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 {321} (#6382505@0)
你曾经明列了receipt的账目，现在compensation的数目说出来对这个case是有意义的，而且也算不了什么隐私。

整个过程，虽然有些处置欠妥，逻辑脆弱，但你不屈不饶，精神可嘉；这个结果不是双赢，使你的胜利。当然，star和bbb是决定性的因素，没有他们，nissan和dealer都不会理你的。但是，star和bbb是你联系的，所以，还是你的胜利。

恭喜！
不是主张好斗，考虑到中国人在英语文化下生活的特殊境遇，确实值得提倡：如果你真的感到不舒服，你说出来。Speak up！ -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6382527@0)

有些人把站出来维权，不平则鸣就称为好斗。感觉真是当奴隶当惯了。我不判断LZ，因为我知道一个帖子能说出来的细节有限，而且有方便说又不方便说的。既然信息全部都是LZ给的，何苦去挑战其真实性呢？就事论事就好了。这种疑神疑鬼的思维很滑稽。My -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 {358} (#6382547@0)
support goes to LZ is because in the event some of us encounter similar situations that warrant a fight, or a fight is the only option left, LZ's experience gives us a good guidance on the tools, channels and approaches available. The scenario is also a good reference on what the outcomes could be.

This is a valuable thing to share with all Rolians.

谢谢分享。中国人就是内斗太多，有合法途径维权也不用，选举也不爱参加。像楼主这样敢于站出来的值得尊敬。 -tzm_oasis(绿洲); 2010-11-25 (#6382533@0)

这个帖子的反对意见个人觉得不属于内斗，因为反对的焦点是：人家那么歧视你，你为什么还跟他做买卖？你签了字，然后又来file a formal complain。。。这些确实是LZ需要反思的。但是，这么悖理的一个case，居然赢了，说明抗争的一个核心基础-广告欺骗-是非常强大的理由。 -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 {90} (#6382612@0)
star的介入是因为广告在star上登的，nissan不怕跟你上庭，但绝不想跟star闹毛。这也是LZ的福气。

A contract is a merely a business agreement, not a moral consensus, not an emotional approval. If you feel the contract violated the latter 2 under the circumstances, you have all the right to fight for it - the outcome -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 {274} (#6382704@0)
may not be what you wanted, but nevertheless the fight is warranted.

You must understand the scope and role of a contract in the western civilization. Only a simpleton would regard a contractual agreement as the sole standard to measure business or social righteousness.

This is a signed business agreement that has nothing to do with moral or social justness. It is only related to legal discretion. She has right to fight but she failed to show her reasonability -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 {324} (#6382887@0)
of the complain against the agreement signed by the same person. Actually, in my opinion, there is such a wonderful legal point to justify her complain that the law regarding Ad has high authority to overwrite the agreement. And I believe it is also the reason all involved parties accept the "after-agreement-complain".

No dude, the whole thing has nothing to do with legal responsibilities or duties, it goes like this: No advertised price on TV, newspaper or even on the tag of the merchandise has any legal binding effects on the actually transactional prices... -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 {2281} (#6383040@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛The legal term for those "advertised prices" is merely a "suggestion". No vendors are legally bound to fulfill that "suggestion". So if you walk in a dealer and the dealer do not honor the advertised price, you cannot hold them legally responsible for the ad - regardless it is Nissan's ad or dealer's ad.

But! if a vendor advertises the price and are proven having no intention or action to fulfill that price in its distribution channels. Then vendor can be prosecuted for false advertising as a type of fraud. So in LZ's case, Nissan is the one who *could* be in legal trouble, however as we all know it, a large vendor is usually protected by layers of law firms and in-org legal departments. The chance for it to lose the case is very slim.

However! No vendor in the right mindset would like to be challenged for false advertising - it is bad PR and incurs necessary legal costs. And an unsatisfied customer itself is already sort of breach of implicit duty of the distribution network - after all, a dealership network's existence is justified by better customer service, otherwise we should all go to eBay or Amazon to order our Pathfinders directly, so a compensation in this case, is the best case scenario for all parties.

I wrote all this is just to clarify 1 fact: The dealer is responsible for customer satisfaction, they are professionally (not legally) bound to provide a solution to you no matter how unreasonable you seem to be. If they can't, you can take an action on them and they can also defense themselves in front of Nissan Canada. If Nissan Canada is the one you are going after, it can defend itself in the court of law. It is a fair game if you want to play.

So it is absurd to pass on judgment to LZ on whether she is being reasonable or not, we don't know the whole fact and the system is designed to be a game of check and balance, and everyone is the player. This is how business become better and better because they get constantly challenged, This is also how consumer becomes better and better because we have the upper hand to fight for injustification when in doubt.

Well unless you put on that L-O-S-E-R hat voluntarily in the first minute of this game - and that's what many vendors want to you to do exactly.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

美国一悍妇因麦当劳咖啡烫手, 告赢了50万, 国人小女子任种而道远啦. -wincity(会英文的红卫兵); 2010-11-25 (#6382583@0)

1970年代通用的大卡车甩尾，造成一小童高位截瘫，通用不禁耍赖还多方狡辩说车没问题。被罚赔偿6500万刀（40年前的美刀！），创当时对个人赔偿的记录。这就是一个商户不诚实面对公众的代价，这才叫公义才叫良心！相比之下麦记的50万算啥呀。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 (#6382599@0)

Can't agree more. In this particular case, everyone should be able to purchase the car at the Ad price. -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-25 (#6382608@0)
毫无可比的事情. -srain(rain); 2010-11-25 (#6382632@0)

不可理喻的东西。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 (#6382844@0)

所以说小女子要再接再厉嘛. 要天天告, 事事告, 了事化小, 小事化老, 告他个天翻地覆, 告出座金山银山, 告出俺们国人小女子的泼气! -wincity(会英文的红卫兵); 2010-11-25 (#6382644@0)

这就不是在讲道理了。 -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6382666@0)

你这就是歧视了. 你说小女子有理, 凭什么说俺没理? -wincity(会英文的红卫兵); 2010-11-25 (#6382705@0)

我只是说你不讲理（好像仅仅是今天），没有说你没有理。那女子在跟别人讲理，但不一定有理，或者说有理但没有讲出来。 -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6382926@0)

Again, Great job! Some people on the forum just don't understand "how important the customer relationship means to a company." As a manger, if he is being rude to the customers, he desires to be fired. There is no excuse for that. -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-25 (#6382595@0)

LZ很多话看了让人感到浅薄无知，像这句就是。人家让步了，不是为了更好的customer relationship，而是nissan感受到了bbb尤其star的压力，或者其他不清楚的原因。至于treatment的滥用，就不提了。LZ的很多思维确实是有问题的，也是激起那边多反对意见的原因。 -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6382650@0)

You are on the right track. -srain(rain); 2010-11-25 (#6382712@0)

LZ的行为和思路有很多值得埃砖的地方，中间我也想骂两句的，但是，我发现她有一股不服的劲头，而且她知道找BBB，toronto star。。。方法对头啊，我们要看到人家这可贵的一面。要知道，很多同胞都是自己吃进去了事的。 -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6382966@0)

她确实有一种劲头,也做出了常人做不出的事.但不好说是好还是不好.我们小时候受的教育鼓励执着,但我更欣赏懂妥协,该饶人出且饶人, 心地纯良的人. -srain(rain); 2010-11-25 (#6382983@0)

A loser is at no position to comment on how players win the game. -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 (#6383059@0)
其实LZ做了一个真的想compliant的人应该和常常做的事而已，关键是看你怎么做以及是否有毅力坚持到底。她写信，还附上证据，这一点做的不错；只是她的行文和逻辑看了让人生气。 -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6383093@0)
至于中国教育给我们的观念，几乎全部是混帐话。饶人之说，背后一个“仁”字，在中国或许可以籍此以立德，但这里，大家讲的是该怎样就怎样，公平乃和睦。不仅我们要入乡随俗，而且，迟早要冲掉还挂在国内的仁义牌坊。 -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6383094@0)

仁, 义, 善永远是为人之本. 国人把精髓的东西丢得太多了. 就我自己的感受,当代西人中善良的比率要更高些. 说来说去也没什么意思, 下线了. -srain(rain); 2010-11-25 (#6383117@0)

妇人之仁丢的好！一个侮辱顾客的销售被炒鱿鱼居然有人心有惺惺焉，这就是典型的妇人之仁。西人没有，中国人更不该有。孔子说：“以德报德，以直抱怨”。LZ作的再“直”不过了，你不是丢了中国文化，是根本就没拣起来过。 -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 (#6383141@0)

你应该说说你最后的具体结果（包括 the amount OF compensation），这样才对得起ROLIA大家的支持，更关键的是鼓励大家＂if you think you are not treated fairly, speak up!＂ -carlson(car); 2010-11-25 (#6382611@0)

You are missing the point. The "amount of compensation" is meaning less to you and me. It is not the money; it is the act to fight for your right. -middleman(middleman); 2010-11-25 (#6382635@0)

开始关注观众的口味来modify结尾,有点写小说的感觉了. -srain(rain); 2010-11-25 (#6382634@0)

在圣诞节前你让一个有家有口有孩子的男人丢了工作, 为了你的496块钱和your angry. 现在的感觉是不是很好呢? -jqka28(bimmer); 2010-11-25 (#6382874@0)

啥时侯出来的法律还是道德。。。说有家有口的贼第三季度偷少于$496的钱可以不受罚的？ -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 (#6382896@0)
如果一个韩国人看到中国人就一幅瞧不起的样子，他丢了饭碗，你伤心吗？我告诉你，我就担心这消息靠不住！ -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6382913@0)

你在哪里看出有"瞧不起的样子"? -wincity(会英文的红卫兵); 2010-11-25 (#6382921@0)

遇上这种"精华热点",我一般是把原著原帖仔细看一遍的. 跟贴有时候会跑题很远的. -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6382990@0)

就算是我最不喜欢或讨厌的人,只要他/她是专业敬业的, 我都不希望他们丢工作.在学校或工作单位遇见的韩国人也有几十个了,没觉得他们瞧不起中国人,相当一部分还挺喜欢和我们凑近乎,挺好的. -srain(rain); 2010-11-25 (#6382963@0)

其实跟那个民族没有关系,只要你看不起中国人,你倒霉我就高兴.没有办法,感情问题,没有理由,没得商量（本人还不是一个很爱国的人呢）. 再说,这个sam敬业吗? -hwy400(朱元璋); 2010-11-25 (#6383015@0)

中国人受歧视的例子不胜枚举.但不觉得有谁根深蒂固看不起中国人. 在开始交往时sterotyping起作用, 但很快你得到的承认和尊重和你个人的修为有关, 个体因素占主要. 从文中有限的描述,看出这个sam是敬业和尊重顾客的.他是整个事件的替罪羊,该同情的一个. -srain(rain); 2010-11-25 (#6383060@0)

best joke of the year. -xbird(交交黄鸟); 2010-11-25 (#6383061@0)
你是因为sam把车卖高价就说他敬业吗？ -tzm_oasis(绿洲); 2010-11-25 (#6383371@0)

在圣诞节前把一个刚买了新车的中国女人连蒙带骗宰了一把. 为了多挣他的496块钱，he is angry, 现在的感觉是不是很爽呢? -mxinmfei(腰缠万罐); 2010-11-25 (#6382932@0)

这个世界讲因果的, 何况还是车. LZ自己没经验多付结果钱退了.但是现在有人卖车却丢了生计........ -jqka28(bimmer); 2010-11-25 {74} (#6383449@0)
再者, 也没说清楚, over charged$469在invoice上什么名目? 当时LZ没问就签字了?

@Edmonton

投诉Nissan (1) --进行中

Replies, comments and Discussions:

More Topics