My statement was based on my research. Your arguments do not apply to people with Chinese background. -guanyunchang(CHITUMA) @埃德蒙顿华人论坛:埃德蒙顿枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Edmonton

工作学习 / 求学深造 / 做个算帐的-闲话会计 (上 -jinx99(CGA); 2007-1-7 {3416} (#3417249@0)

Great! Waiting for next part .... :) -yrnsh(悠然*白云红叶); 2007-1-7 (#3417326@0)

Thanks! -jinx99(CGA); 2007-1-7 (#3417496@0)

OMG, I have copyright on these titles. You should pay some for using. At least a dish of "chicken without sexual life"!! -generousman(fromSH); 2007-1-7 (#3417458@0)

I am not sure what is "chicken without sexual life", too bad : -(. But I could offer you a "Snow on Volcano". I ordered once and dish is...... -jinx99(CGA); 2007-1-7 {10} (#3417506@0)
糖拌西红柿

hehe, i've learned new. the answer is -generousman(fromSH); 2007-1-7 {6} (#3417511@0)
童子鸡

To whom want to be an accountant, recommend to learn CA instead of CGA, -guanyunchang(CHITUMA); 2007-1-8 {831} (#3419284@0)
1, CA is easier in term of examination.
CA exams kill somebody using a gun. one bullet is done!
CGA exams looks like killing someone piece by piece by using a knife (more pains some time the knife is not so fast)
2, CA is easier in experience requirement.
CA does not require senior level experience as long as you worked in any size any CA firm over 1 year.
CGA requires senior level working experience which is hard to obtain. (employers will not offer you the senior position if you are not a CGA)
3, CA needs shorter time to complete.
CA students usually spend 3-4 years, they will be a CA.
CGA strdents average time is 7 years due to its curriculum.
4, CAs earn more than CGAs in Onatrio
CA is the dominate designation in ON, so the salary is higher.
CGAs are earning lower than CA at least in Ontario currently.

I agree with your statement, but your arguments are not necessary true: -mitten(mitten); 2007-1-8 {1628} (#3419648@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1. CA is not easier in terms of examination. If a person can’t survive the CGA exams, most likely he/she won’t survive the CA exam. I am not saying that CA exam is more difficult. However the UFE is notoriously demanding and intense. I have seen so many CA students who could never pass the UFE.

2. CA is not easier in experience requirement. As far as I know, Ontario still requires a total 30 months of working experiences in a qualified CA firm to be certified as a CA. CGA does require senior level of experience, but the experience can be acquired in any sector, i.e. industry, NPO, government etc. Based on my experience, it is not that hard to obtain qualified senior level experience and employers do hire PACE level CGA students for senior positions all the time. However it is true, you can obtain senior level working experience faster in a CA firm.

3. It is true that average CGA students tend to complete their program slower than CA students mainly because they start from a lower level. If two persons graduated from same university, one goes to CA program, one goes to CGA program, and I don’t see why the CGA student will take longer to complete the program.

4. CAs are not automatically earn more than CGAs. It depends on many factors other than the designation.

If you are a fresh university graduate and can get hired by a CA firm, then by no means to pursue the CA designation. Otherwise, CGA is also a highly valuable designation and can take you as far as you want. CA is not the only career path to be an accountant.

To all CGA students, if you are a star, you will shine eventually!更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Totally agree, thank you for sharing. -7y7(醉里吴音); 2007-1-8 (#3419817@0)
My statement was based on my research. Your arguments do not apply to people with Chinese background. -guanyunchang(CHITUMA); 2007-1-8 {939} (#3419823@0)
1, Immigrats from China are good at the one time CA examination. Lots of them have past the United Examination for the entrance to their university in China, which is probably more difficult than the CA UFE. For time saving, CA is a better choice.
2,Not so many companies offer the senior level position before you have the designation. This is the fact.
3,Students can just take 3 courses per year. Eventhough you graduate from school in accounting, starting from Level3, you have over 10 courses to finish. At least 4 years needed to complete the courses provided that you pass your each course in one try(which is very hard). So 7 years is the average. Too bad, if you spent over 5 years for the study, but failed in the half way.(this is possible)
4,CGA is a highly valuable designation for sure due to its costs(time and money). However,CA won the war in Ontario. I think if you want to move to BC, CGA may be an equivalent choice.

I basically wrote this one for Chinese background immigrations. For my understanding, it's also fact that it's really hard to join a CA firm if you are not local university graduates who major in accounting. -jinx99(CGA); 2007-1-8 {522} (#3420298@0)
I know few Chinese background immigrations join the CA firm, unless they worked for "Big four" before. However, I do know many Chinese CGA students get their senior position to be CGAs.

Talking about auditing, yes, if you want to be an auditor in Ontario, you have to be a CA. But how many CAs stay with auditing. Destination could be a limitation, but real limitation for an accountant, I think, is how far we want to go on our career path.

By the way, I like the discussion and learn a lot from all of you.
Once again, I am sorry that I have to disagree with you. -mitten(mitten); 2007-1-8 {2361} (#3420351@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛As a matter of fact for the majority of Chinese skilled immigrants, as I am one of them, your arguments understated the difficulties and overstated the benefits of becoming a CA. At the same time, you overstated the difficulties and understated the benefits of becoming an accountant other than CA, which includes both CGA & CMA.

I am not trying to discourage people to pursue the CA designation. But we should not narrow our choices and compare apples to oranges.

Let me use two examples to illustrate my point.

Person A immigrated to Canada with an Accounting related Bachelor Degree in China. The chance for A to be hired as a CA student is quite remote unless he/she had worked in one of the Big Four firms in China. Otherwise the better alternative for A is to go for the CGA or CMA.

Person B immigrated to Canada with a non-Accounting Bachelor Degree in China. In order to become an accountant, B has three options:
a) get another accounting related degree/diploma in Canada and go for the CA;
b) get another accounting related degree/diploma in Canada and go for the CGA & CMA; c) directly apply for as an entry level CGA student.

If B’s age is over 30 and already has a family (which probably is true for the majority of Chinese skilled immigrants), then the CA route might not be the best choice as he/she has to compete with the local graduates in their early 20s. Anyone who has work experience in a CA firm would understand it is extremely difficult to be a CA student with a young kid unless you have the full support of your spouse. By comparison, option b) and c) are better in this case.

My point is that we should not glorify the CA designation. CA is not for everyone. I don’t know how you reach the conclusion that average a person needs 7 years to complete the CGA program. Just to share my own experience, I graduated from a two year accounting program, fulfilled the experience requirement in less than 2 years and completed CGA study in less than 3 years. My earning is definitely not less than the same level of CAs once you take into consideration of their overtime and pressure. I know many Chinese CGA friends and none of them need more than 5 years to complete the CGA program.

To be honest, if a person has difficulty to get through the CGA program, what is his/her chance to get through the CA program?更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

BRAVO! -jinx99(CGA); 2007-1-9 {422} (#3420397@0)
I can see why you complete your CGA. Very clear analysis with deep thoughts. I wrote the first part of story just for the people who may know CA, CGA & CMA but don't know how to get there. I hope I can write the second part of story about what CGAs can do and how CGA destination can benefit a Chinese immigration. However, I think you should be the person to write the second part. If you want, be my guest please.

Wow, what a compliment! Really the same should be said to you as well. Your series of postings about CGA are very informative and in depth. Keep up the good job! -mitten(mitten); 2007-1-9 {374} (#3420433@0)
Your idea about the second part of the story is excellent. I don’t think I am qualified to write as I have never worked in other sectors other than CA firm. Besides, I can’t type Chinese very well.
I am more than happy to share more details of my own story as well as those of my friends. Feel free to send me a PM if that’s helpful for you to write up the second part.

Can't agree with you more. -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-9 {831} (#3420816@0)
How long does it take to finish CGA depends. CGA association allows for 10 years to complete a CGA destignation doesn't automatically mean that everyone is allowed and will take 10 years to complete. In my situation, I started accounting completely from scratch in Canada. I finished 3 year accounting diploma in 1 year and 4 months. Then it took me 2 years and 3 months to complete all remaining CGA courses and experience requirements and got my CGA destignation.

In my opinion, CA is better for younger people. CGA (not sure about CMA) is better for adults like new immigrants. You don't have to get all your course credits, find a specific job in a designated accounting firm for work experience. You can start by taking some courses in any school, try to find an accounting related job, and keep on going if you like it.
let's be honest, we have to find short-cut. -guanyunchang(CHITUMA); 2007-1-10 {1057} (#3424186@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Let's be honest. Getting through one time examination is easier than getting through 20 examinations. congrats to you if you spend your 2 years full time and 3 years part time to get your CGA designation. However, it makes seemingly impossible for everyone to complete the program in about 5 years. Instead of spending that long time to get this, why not spend less time to get CA?
First off, time is especially important for new immgrats. It makes no sense to spend it if you have better choice and better result. Considering opportunity costs.
Second,share what I know. I have seen two people.They graduated from same school at same time. Person A went to a CA firm after graduation. He spent just 2 years for his CA designation. Another one B went to a company and spent 5 years getting his CGA. Then Person B was hired by the CA firm, the manager(the first one who is CA now) suggested him obtain CA in order to be a partner in the future. So, person B has to spent more time to obtain CA.
If you are a star, don't waste your time,shine it asap!更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

I forgot to mention that I have never studied accounting before I came to Canada and I didn’t have a bachelor degree at that time. -mitten(mitten); 2007-1-10 {1226} (#3424463@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛So if I went for the CA route, I would have to study at least another year to get a bachelor degree before I could be hired as a CA student. So for my case, it could take the same time, if not more, to be a CA.

By the way, during the 3 years in the CGA program, I also wrote the CPA exam and was certified as a CPA and completed a bachelor degree before I got my CGA designation. Some of my friends who graduated from the same program actually completed their CGA study in less than 2 years because they already have their bachelor degree in other majors.

Again, I don’t think CA is a short cut to become an accountant. Besides, there are people like me who simply don’t like auditing. Although I always have choice to switch to the CA program as I am working in a CA firm, but I chose not to because I know experience is more important than the name of a designation.

I am not trying to convince you. However I hope you know that at least in Ontario, before you are qualified to write the UFE, you need to pass the CKE exam first (except for the graduates from the 5 years Accounting Co-op program). The UFE exam itself is not just one exam. It used to last 3 days, which I think is equivalent to at least 6 exams.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

haha, I'm the person B(a) :-))). It took me 2 years to finish my new accounting degree here and join one of the Big4. Not really so remote as I thought before. -cube(又见炊烟); 2007-1-22 (#3447677@0)

well said.. more points added-- It’s true that CA exam is tougher than CGA exam to some extent, but they are different. CGA requires one’s time and energy and endurance i.e.lack of personal life especially when you take pace level course. -ribswithrice(ribs); 2007-1-8 {779} (#3420296@0)
TX2 and AU2, PA1are not very easy to handle at all.
The experience requirement for CGA is much wider compared to CA. I have seen so many CGA students who have passed all the required CGA courses couldnot obtain CGA designation coz they havenot passed at least one yr's senior experience requirement. In ontario, CA is more powerful than any other designation, ie. CGA, CMA, CPA, or ACCA. CGA is merged with ACCA now..
But in BC, CGA is more popular and more powerful than CA.
It doesnot matter whichever accounting desigation you obtain, or say you dont have anyone. Experience is mostly important for any accounting professional.
Compared to CGA, CMA, I think CA provides more comprehensive and formal, integrated training for CA students, of coz the focus is different.

CGA is merged with ACCA now? Really? CGA website has troubles recently and I can't find the information. -jinx99(CGA); 2007-1-8 {995} (#3420373@0)
I knew CMA and CA discussed about merger couple years ago, but it never happened. Actually, for decades, there have been attempts to merge the accounting profession in Canada. However, due to the conflicting interests of the various accountancy bodies, a merger of the industry in the near future is unlikely.

CICA withdrew its recognition of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales and Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland for a period of time in 2004-05. This was due to pressure the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA) put on the United Kingdom government to withdraw practising rights from Canadian CAs in the United Kingdom until similar rights were obtained by Chartered Certified Accountants in Canada. In 2005 the issue was temporarily resolved pending a resolution of the ACCA application for public practise rights in the province of Ontario

If CGA merged with ACCA, does this mean CGAs are able to appliy for public pracitse now?

CGA and ACCA has signed a mutual recognition partnership agreement. This partnership provides access for members of CGA and ACCA to join the other body, opening opportunities for internationally mobile accountants. -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-10 {278} (#3424469@0)
Both bodies believe that the accountancy profession is best served by partnerships which promote global standards, and enhance the value of accountants in the workplace, and by qualifications which provide opportunity for talented people to develop skills required by employers.

How about CA and CMA? Which one is easier? Thanks expert! -joieguo(Chloe); 2007-1-28 (#3462928@0)

looking forward to the next part. -peggyyysun(布谷鸟); 2007-1-8 (#3420031@0)
Great article overall but your following sentence is outdated: -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-9 {989} (#3420765@0)
"在加拿大, Chartered Accountant (CA), 是会计界唯一可在全国范围内签署Audited Financial Statements的会计, The Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants(CICA)是制定加拿大会计准则的机构."

In history, this statement is only true in Ontario, Quebec, and some of other provinces in Canada, not all of the provinces in Canada. BC is the best example.

Secondly, the Accountancy Act has been changed now in Ontario. CGA, CMA have the same right as CA to issue auditor's report. It may still be true CA will be dominate in audit for an uncertain period of time due to the protection of Ontario Accountancy Act for many decades. However, I believe CGA/CMA can do as well as CA in audit and will eventually gain increasing market in Ontario. Just look at BC, without the accountancy act exclusion, CGA has the same power as CA. Right now, there are more than 100 CGAs have obtained public license. CGAs always play a key role and they will play a bigger role and more be powerful in Ontario.

As far as i know CGA is still working on getting right to do auditing in Ontario. I did research to confirm what i know. Here is the link. -linpine(linpine); 2007-1-9 {2279} (#3420941@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Canada
In Canada, Chartered Accountants must be members of the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants (CICA). However, CICA membership must be held alongside membership of at least one CA institute (or ordre in French) of a Canadian province or territory. It is not possible to join the CICA directly.

Auditing rights are regulated by provincial governments. In British Columbia, the Company Act provides that only CAs, CGAs, or anyone who has been granted an accounting licence by the provincial regulatory body may audit public companies. In Prince Edward Island, only qualified CAs and CGAs can perform public accounting and auditing in accordance with the Public Accounting and Auditing Act. In all other provinces, except Quebec and Ontario, only qualified CAs, CGAs, and CMAs may audit public companies.

Historically Quebec and Ontario only allowed CAs to audit public companies. However, CGAs and CMAs can audit a selected list of public bodies in Quebec. In 2004, the Ontario government passed legislation that would enable CGAs and CMAs to practice public accounting, but only after these bodies had demonstrated to a reconstituted Public Accountants Council that they could attain qualification standards of equivalent rigour to CAs. Until that process is completed sometime in 2007 or 2008, neither CGAs nor CMAs can will be eligible for public accounting licenses.

In Quebec, the situation is currently under review and challenge based on the Agreement of Internal Trade (AIT). In August 2005, the AIT issued a report recommending Quebec to change its legislation by opening public auditing to qualified accountants who are not CAs.

The size of the accounting bodies varies across Canada. In Ontario and Quebec, CA is substantially bigger than CGA or CMA. In Manitoba, CGA is the largest accounting body, whereas in British Columbia, CA and CGA are about the same size.

Canadian Chartered Accountants use the designatory letters CA. However, a Canadian CA who is a member of a different institute/ordre to that of the province or territory in which he resides may face a restriction on using designatory letters in that province or territory. It is however normally straightforward to transfer membership from one provincial institute to another.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartered_Accountant

I'm not very interested in arguing about audit right. The link you post here does say CGA/CMA have right to audit (which means to get a public license), not fighting the righ to audit. -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-9 {1881} (#3421466@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛What CGA is still fighting is to provide its public licensing standards to PAC and prove that CGA is qualified as an independent body to issue public license to its members, which needs some time since the law only finalized in last year. The current difficulties for CGAs in Ontario are PAC accepts CA licensing model and requires CGAs follow the same procedures (most difficult part is audit hours). This obviously prevents most current CGAs in Ontario from getting a public license because CGA designation doesn't always require audit hours, but qualified senior experience from all industries.

CGA Ontario won the first fight (gaining right to audit) but lost in 2nd fight (licensing model). Since the law has changed and open up the competition in audit market, in the long run, CA will lose its monopoly protected under the old act, and eventually benfits the whole society.

The whole thing is too complicated and frustrated for CGA like me to catch up the whole process. To me it's like a huge joke. There are two brothers CA and CGA. CGA has been fighting to do audit for many many years. CA has been trying whatever he can to prevent CGA from doing audit for many many years. Finally, the father (government, the law) steps in and say: " OK, CGA, I give the right to do audit. First of all, go to CA and work under his supervision and get your audit hours first. That's how CA get his license". No matter how hard CGA tries to prove to the father that he's qualified and can do audit as well as CA. The father still say: no, go to CA for help is the only way you can get a license. Imaging the result: the CA is never willing to help CGA so that he never gets a lincense. Before CGA dies, CA is very proud to declare: now all people can see, I'm the only one can do the audit. I'm the best in accounting.

Hope the fate of CGAs in Ontario is not that bad.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

I think having public license allows you to do auditing (assurance engagement), that's why CGA is fighting on it. They are related. CGA is one step closer so far. -linpine(linpine); 2007-1-9 (#3421498@0)

More than 100 CGAs have already got public license so far in Ontario. So that's not about right to do audit. It's about right to issue license to its members. As long as a CGA meets the licensing requirements, CGA has right to get a license. -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-9 {294} (#3422135@0)
The current difficulty is CGA may need to go to CA firms to get audit hours in order to get license, which is what CGA is fighting for. The two concepts are two issues even though they are related. But the whole point I want to point out is the assertion that only CA can do audit is not right.

I got your point, and i think those CGA having public license must have CA designation as CGA association of ontario is still working on the model to be approved by PAC for the authorization to license the qualified CGAs to do public practice. -linpine(linpine); 2007-1-9 {556} (#3422422@0)
And if CGA association of ontario win the battle and CGA with public license can work on assurance engagement. That's why i still think only CA can really do auditing (issuing audited financial statement)in Ontario. Assurance engagement is a huge money market which CA won't easily let CGA or CMA have share. Otherwise, why fighting for the license if CGA can do audit too since some CGAs already open business on bookkeeping, taxation services. What's other peers' opinion on that?

Here is one article just out and have 2006 salary survey as well!
http://www.thebottomlinenews.ca/index.php?section=article&articleid=208

You still don't get my point. If those CGAs who got public lincenses it's because they have CA destignation. Why do I have to argue here? -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-9 {581} (#3422558@0)
Those licenses were issued when Ontario Accountancy Act changed and PAC was temporary acted as licensing body and issued to those CGAs who applied for and met the licensing requirements at that time. Those CGAs will hold their licenses as long as they meet the renewal requirements.

I can't really explain everything clearly here. I was not very interested in licensing process from the beginning. I'm more interested in the results at the end. If you are so interested in this, go to CGA Ontario website. Maybe you can still see all the related links there and how is it now.
I think you mix up "CGA has right to do audit" with "CGA Ontario has right to issue public lincense" . CGAs in Ontario gain the first one but CGA Ontario is fighting the second one. -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-9 (#3422571@0)
再这么打比方吧, 你已经符合了加国入籍条件, 但是你无法申请公民因为CITIZEN OFFICE 电脑系统出问题了. 这是说明你无权入籍呢还是政府无法给你发公民证? -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-10 {167} (#3422619@0)
CGA目前的处境是: CGA 会员有权申请PUBLIC LICENSE但CGA ASSOCIATE OF ONTARIO 无权授于PUBLIC LICENSE给CGA 会员. 这并不说明CGA无权申请PUBLIC LICENSE, 更不说明CGA无权做审计.

I think you are right and thank you for clarfying this matter for us. -jinx99(CGA); 2007-1-9 (#3422488@0)

CGA 和CA的培养方向不一样。在CGA实物里，我们没有看到有关AUDITING的是实物操作，那CGA如果有F/R 的签署权就不合理了。相反CA的培养的很重要的一点就是AUDTING 工作时间，那些CA们，拼死拼活做了这么多不同公司，甚至不同行业的审计，他们当然更加有理由和有资格签署F/R。 -huaguangguanyu(观渔); 2007-1-14 {912} (#3431346@0)
我个人人为，加拿大的会计体系有着严重的不合理的方面。小小的一个国家，有3种会计执照，这些证书的设立，如果从COST-BENEFIT来分析是完全没有必要的。这也是加拿大效率低下的另一个论证。
CGA非常DETAIL，很大不部分时间放在会计数据的整理，和数据的正确性上。没有整体会计系统的统筹和规划。而CA却恰恰弥补了CGA的这个不足。而一个社会，它更看中的是有效的整体会计系统规划所带来的价值，而不是细节正确性带来的价值。这也是CA的含金量高与其他会计证书的原因之一。
我们从事会计行业的人也要正面一点的是：从证书的角度上讲，CGA确实没有CA的含金量高，这是一个业内心照不宣的一种看法。当然人和人是有不同的。从单个的人来讲，一个CGA也很有可能比一个CA对一个公司的贡献更多。还有一个事实就是，即使安小时算，CA的工资确实比CGA的工资就高出一大截。这也是从另一个方面验证了CA的含金量非其他的会计证书所可以比的。
还有一点，CA并不一定要ACCOUNTING 本科毕业，学完51个会计学分并加一个本科学位就可以。当然，这只是一个开始，还有其他各种复杂的规定，不一一列举。

CGA is designed to fit small companies. lots of family owned companies, -hipacific(crystalblue); 2007-1-14 {46} (#3431352@0)
bunch of Finance VP, CGA is their good option.
谢谢你的回复. -jinx99(CGA); 2007-1-14 {1200} (#3431676@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛首先, 我同意你的看法, 加拿大有三种会计执照不是一种cost efficient 的表现. 但这种格局已经形成, 我的帖子也是基于这种格局, 提醒大家在选择学习和职业角度上多多考虑.

CGA 的Auditing 要求, 不一定每个Candidate 都需要. 但工作经历的要求也不会门槛太低. 如果完成过Business Case 2, 这个BC2 就是Auditing 实务. 我个人收益颇多, 如果我现在做Auditing, 也不会无从下手. CGA是非常detail, 可能是学习CGA 的人员背景比较复杂.

“没有整体会计系统的统筹和规划”, 我不太清楚是指那一方面. 就CA students, 开始几年也只能是了解某个行业的某个方面. 也可能这个CA student是从tax 做起而不是audit. 一个人一开始做大公司的full cycle audit 或独立做一个公司的auditing 可能性不大.

“CGA确实没有CA的含金量高” 从业务角度讲, 我不同意. CGA很多都是从基层做起, 基础业务和对某一行业的了解可以是很深刻的. 从证书的角度上讲, CA 是加拿大最高的会计头衔. 有志于从事会计工作的朋友, 应该毫不疑问地不断在business 和academic 上提高自己.

“CA的工资确实比CGA的工资就高出一大截” 我可以保证在同一岗位上, 是不会有这个区别的.

不管大家选择CA,CGA,CMA, 应该根据自己本身的情况做决定. 会计工作有越来越多的variety, 一个人能不能做好自己的工作, 很大程度上取决于个人的兴趣,爱好, 用功的程度, 良好的沟通能力和team work. 真不是一 “A”就可一劳永逸的.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Overall, CA has more value than CGA, but in real situation, u will meet some CA especially from small firm is just so so and some CGA and CMA are pretty good. -linpine(linpine); 2007-1-14 {152} (#3431803@0)
I believe it totally depends on each person's late career development and self conscious continued education. Getting the designation is never the end.

I only gave you one simple example happened in my company recently. Our external audit firm is one of big 4(De Qin). And during one week field audit by two senior auditors(one is still CA student, another has passed UFE). -ribswithrice(ribs); 2007-1-14 {840} (#3431905@0)
Neither of them are good enough, or should say good enough to be senior auditors. The questions they asked and the auditing samples they choose indicate they are not that professional at all.

It's just one of examples.. Currently, coz of lack of CA student, obviously, CGA or CMA has been competing with CA. The UFE is much easier and is evidenced from my controller. He passed UFE 7 yrs ago. He told me CA has to lower down the level of exam in order to attract CA students.

Of coz, I have seen a few CGA students who have passed EPAS, but still not good enough to hold senior accountant position. So, all in all, accounting designation is not the only way , actually should say , it is just one of measurements which lead to career success..

We have to know, as a good accounting professional, experience is always the key..

Totally agree. Getting a designation is not the only indicator of capability and qualification. It's just a MINIMUM requirement of becoming a member of an assoication. Work experience is the real valuable asset. -sunbeamcga(二月鱼飞); 2007-1-14 (#3432670@0)

no designation no good pay. quite simple! -guanyunchang(CHITUMA); 2007-1-19 (#3443598@0)

@Edmonton

My statement was based on my research. Your arguments do not apply to people with Chinese background.

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