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@Edmonton

agree, I never think Developer只是年轻人的职业

sowen(sowen)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛what you said are true

besides, it also depends on personal interest, if they really love programming, not saying most people enter this field just because they hear it's easy to find a job or something like that, I mean a real love of programming, if a person does have this feeling, age is never a problem.

but if a person does not have this feeling, when he/she grows up, usually starts losing the enthusiasm to continue learning and working. In that case, people normally find an excuse, such as, "ooops, I am getting old, and developing shall be the world of young kids. They have passions, they can think much quickly than what I can. Maybe I should be a project manager, consultant or something else..." Ha, check with Dilbert, they are losing their engineering knack, becoming Wally.

Moreover, a so-called developer should not only be a job, it's a skill, just like KungFu, after you learn it, you know how to do it forever. As long as we learn how to program (I mean real how-to, you know what I mean), we know developing forever. No age difference. Yup. there might have one, just as you say, stamina, elder people sleep earlier than young kids.

BTW, personal opinion, I think most young kids need to spend almost 10 years to learn real how-to program.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
(#3395232@0)
Last Updated: 2006-12-25
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 工作学习 / 事业与工作 / Developer真的只是年轻人的职业吗？ -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-24 {2528} (#3394037@0)
    • Agree. 深圳东南: 东软? -haifeng(海風); 2006-12-24 (#3394243@0)
      • 是深圳东南，不是多大的公司，但却是有些人物。 -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 (#3394766@0)
    • 这位同学，"USER case” --> USE CASE。专业术语一定要精确哦。 -m0m(m0m); 2006-12-24 (#3394266@0)
      • 谢谢. 这里正好让我想起了另一个重要的系统开发原则.First make it work, then make it right and last it improve it performance. 这些年来一些这样的东西,东一点,西一点的在我的脑袋里,确实 -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 {49} (#3394761@0)
        也没有整地时间去整理一下,所以乘此机会整理一下.:-)
        • Are u sure? Make it work then make it right? It is very old ... say 10 yrs ago or more. -ra_95(小人*无聊一族); 2006-12-25 (#3395006@0)
          • 这不是我的原话,我也没有这种智商悟出这些东西,我这里写的绝大多数都是过去若干年中各种文章和书在我大脑中留下的记忆比较深刻的东西.这句话可以参阅,1997年的PLOP大会的一片文章"MUD PATTERN",或者UNIX编程的10原则,后者也是参照前者. -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 {66} (#3395021@0)
            基本原则和XP过程中说的一样,尽早让系统接受反馈,当然还有一些其他因素
            • so, 10 yrs.... -ra_95(小人*无聊一族); 2006-12-25 (#3395227@0)
    • Good job, I believe you are making good money. ~~ Do the Simplest Thing that would Possibly Work. -hqtd(:DD); 2006-12-24 (#3394278@0)
      • 没有big money，知道这些东西能获得的好处就是，在实际工作的，不会有不切实际的幻想，面对困难的时候，心态会平静不少 -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 (#3394791@0)
    • 世上本无事... -iwantcar(恶疾,时日无多,戒网); 2006-12-24 (#3394355@0)
      • 呵呵,好厉害的角色,前不久我才想到菩提本无树,明镜亦非台....,是不是和所谓的系统行为的相对性有关系.我查了一下. -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 (#3394809@0)
        • 好像先是有个叫神秀的大师说"身为菩提树,心似明镜台,...."有点感觉这种还是强调自我,在系统的设计中时过分强调实现,而慧能的"菩提本无树,明镜亦非台.."更加想系统的相对性,即任何一个系统如果没有一个对其行为的参照系,则不能描述其系统. -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 (#3394818@0)
      • "才人“自扰之：）？ -frankwoo(柳五随风); 2006-12-25 (#3394934@0)
        • 你的RS编码和FEC搞得怎样啦.其实,那天我想了想,估计那个东西我以后也会用得着.就是太忙了. -iwantcar(恶疾,时日无多,戒网); 2006-12-25 (#3395159@0)
          • 搞定了。 -frankwoo(柳五随风); 2006-12-25 (#3395243@0)
            • 牛.那你对其数学意义也理解了吗? -iwantcar(恶疾,时日无多,戒网); 2006-12-25 (#3395529@0)
              • 不怎么理解。 -frankwoo(柳五随风); 2006-12-26 (#3395880@0)
    • 继续一下吧 -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 {761} (#3394785@0)
      系统的基本的演化过程是反馈和吸收反馈的功能,这个就是为什么很多公司的产品希望早日能够占据市场的原因. 系统i本身的实现技术并不复杂,就算现在的J2EE和.NET对于个人来讲都不是什么多大的问题,问题的根本在于一个系统的开发组织是否能获得足够的反馈,大家想象为什么XP?
      为什么迭代式的开发过程?很多人认为这些RUP或者XP都是新东西,其实大家想象相对论,决定物种进化的根本原因是什么?自然选择是什么?自然选择是环境反馈+系统吸收反馈和自我改进的过程.前者是新的系统必须早日投入到其环境中获取反馈,后者才是有技术人员才与的过程.
      所以做技术的有时太过于看重实现技术,其实第一重要的是反馈,系统地实现由很多,如果脱离了其环境,你无法说一个系统是好还是坏
      另一点重要的是,我从不相信有天才可以脱离出环境和反馈可以在家设计出好的系统,如果有,要么是他在相关领域中时间非常长,或者该系统属于环境反馈以来少的系统.
      • Suggest to use English for key terminologies. -hqtd(:DD); 2006-12-25 (#3395524@0)
    • 现在还能想到的另一个用处很大的原则是如何相处对复杂系统的神秘感 -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 {191} (#3394834@0)
      也许我们还是开发不复杂系统,但至少我们不会觉得他很神秘,这个原则,就是所有系统的基本组成就是状态和依赖.呵呵,想起原来编辑部的故事里的主体曲"人字的结构就是相互支持"看来系统设计的原理哪都有啊.:-)
    • 言之昭昭，使人昏昏。 -frankwoo(柳五随风); 2006-12-25 (#3394930@0)
      • 也是一种反馈：-）。任何反馈都是必要的。反映了真实的环境 -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 (#3394940@0)
    • 如何反馈和如何对待反馈 -ericyoung(eric); 2006-12-25 {456} (#3394996@0)
      受刚才一个reply的提醒,想到了反馈的一个基本原则:选择好反馈主体.开发中我最怕的就是另一个人过来,尤其是权利比我大的,突然对系统的一个特征说,用户觉得这个很不好?是吗?到底是用户,还是他?如果是不止一个用户,那么用户中需要细分,是那些用户?如果这些这些都不清楚,那么准确的反馈是"我觉得可能会有些用户觉得这个不好",如果这样的语言就会为后面解决这个问题留下空间,否则就容易产生双方面的抵触情绪,从而影响开发组织的效率.所以提供反馈或者解决方案的时候不要忘记加上,"我觉得...".
      • Think about SQM. -ice(草根丁); 2006-12-25 (#3395153@0)
    • agree, I never think Developer只是年轻人的职业 -sowen(sowen); 2006-12-25 {1283} (#3395232@0)
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛what you said are true

      besides, it also depends on personal interest, if they really love programming, not saying most people enter this field just because they hear it's easy to find a job or something like that, I mean a real love of programming, if a person does have this feeling, age is never a problem.

      but if a person does not have this feeling, when he/she grows up, usually starts losing the enthusiasm to continue learning and working. In that case, people normally find an excuse, such as, "ooops, I am getting old, and developing shall be the world of young kids. They have passions, they can think much quickly than what I can. Maybe I should be a project manager, consultant or something else..." Ha, check with Dilbert, they are losing their engineering knack, becoming Wally.

      Moreover, a so-called developer should not only be a job, it's a skill, just like KungFu, after you learn it, you know how to do it forever. As long as we learn how to program (I mean real how-to, you know what I mean), we know developing forever. No age difference. Yup. there might have one, just as you say, stamina, elder people sleep earlier than young kids.

      BTW, personal opinion, I think most young kids need to spend almost 10 years to learn real how-to program.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • Support. Read this: "Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years" -roadahead(彷徨中); 2006-12-25 (#3395549@0)
    • 我不清楚你在跟谁吵，或者在反驳哪个人的意见。。。不过就现实世界而言，我实在没有看到过哪个高薪的contractor职位是毛头小伙子能拿到的。这里找人，经验越多越好，难道不是吗？ -crashingwaves(波浪); 2006-12-25 {146} (#3395574@0)
      北美这里强调经验和见识，是因为这里很多是做开发或者（更进一步）是做研究的。国内嘛，主要是外包而已，不值一提。哥们刚从国内过来，时差还没有倒过来吧？

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