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@Edmonton

谢谢你的转帖. 虽然不是你写的, 但我还是要砸! :)

klassische(老音乐迷)
抱怨西方或美国白人文化的霸道是由来已久了. 其实抱怨得最狠并且采取行动的是美国人自己. 美国以前强调liberal arts education, 就是讲西方(西欧和美国)文明史, 从荷马, 伯拉图, 亚理斯多德到伏尔泰, 卢梭, 奥斯汀到黑格尔, 尼才, 马克思到潘恩, 米尔斯. 结果在七十年代的女权及反种族歧视运动的冲击下这些西方文明史的课程在美国大学里几乎消失了. 有深厚历史背景的名著被Political Correct的现代作品所代替, 结果呢, 是丧失了自己的文化传统, 以致于有人在八十年代末期惊呼: The Closing of American Mind.

其实主流之所以成为主流, 并不是靠抄作能达到的. 这一点每一个做科学的人都知道. 美国在科学上的领先, 很少有人说是抄作出来的. 为什么一到了文化或人文学, 就总是有人要相信Conspiracy Theory 呢? 因为文化和人文学有许多灰色的东西, 没有简单而又客观的标准来证明这些谬论. 但谬论终归是谬论. 在自己的理论或表现形式得不到广泛的接收时就开始抱怨主流的东西, 说好听点是给自己解解气, 安尉安尉自己, 说难听点就是夜郎自大, 自欺欺人, 说得更难听点就是耸人听闻, 误人子弟!
(#2214956@0)
Last Updated: 2005-4-1
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下拾英 / 乐韵书香 / 世 界 艺 术 中 的 美 德 中 心 -lifesucks(板儿爷,粪清,古典垃圾); 2005-4-1 (#2214854@0)
    • u made a mistake in the title, well, it is a funny one, because the Chinese translation name for the US and Germen, @_@ -table(桌子来了); 2005-4-1 (#2214903@0)
    • 谢谢你的转帖. 虽然不是你写的, 但我还是要砸! :) -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 {918} (#2214956@0)
      抱怨西方或美国白人文化的霸道是由来已久了. 其实抱怨得最狠并且采取行动的是美国人自己. 美国以前强调liberal arts education, 就是讲西方(西欧和美国)文明史, 从荷马, 伯拉图, 亚理斯多德到伏尔泰, 卢梭, 奥斯汀到黑格尔, 尼才, 马克思到潘恩, 米尔斯. 结果在七十年代的女权及反种族歧视运动的冲击下这些西方文明史的课程在美国大学里几乎消失了. 有深厚历史背景的名著被Political Correct的现代作品所代替, 结果呢, 是丧失了自己的文化传统, 以致于有人在八十年代末期惊呼: The Closing of American Mind.

      其实主流之所以成为主流, 并不是靠抄作能达到的. 这一点每一个做科学的人都知道. 美国在科学上的领先, 很少有人说是抄作出来的. 为什么一到了文化或人文学, 就总是有人要相信Conspiracy Theory 呢? 因为文化和人文学有许多灰色的东西, 没有简单而又客观的标准来证明这些谬论. 但谬论终归是谬论. 在自己的理论或表现形式得不到广泛的接收时就开始抱怨主流的东西, 说好听点是给自己解解气, 安尉安尉自己, 说难听点就是夜郎自大, 自欺欺人, 说得更难听点就是耸人听闻, 误人子弟!
      • mamma mia, 美国以前讲西方西欧文明史, 结果在七十年代的女权及反种族歧视运动的冲击下这些西方文明史的课程在美国大学里几乎消失了. are you sure? -table(桌子来了); 2005-4-1 (#2214992@0)
        • yes, i am very sure. The only universities that still have the same course are Columbia and U of Chicago -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2215004@0)
          • or maybe they've already moved 这些西方文明史的课程 to high school? I have no idea about their education system, but I do not think that youths in North America are lack of the knowledge in this field. -table(桌子来了); 2005-4-1 (#2215008@0)
            • i don't think so. few kids today know much about these stuff. talk to a high school kid from a public school, you will be amazed how little the know about wesern civilization history -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2215018@0)
            • as far as i know, University of Toronto Schools (a private high school) is the only one in Toronto--or maybe in Ontario-- that offer a course on Ancient Greece and Rome -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2215023@0)
              • if it was true, I am so sad for the kids, they might learm all these knowledge from Hollywood junk movies, Troy, Alexader the great, this is unbelievable and unbearable -table(桌子来了); 2005-4-1 (#2215034@0)
                • exactly! my daughter watched Troy, and told me they don't even have Casandra in it. She was outraged. :) -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2215037@0)
                  • if so, it is tragic fact for sure, but anything to do with 女权及反种族歧视运动? -table(桌子来了); 2005-4-1 (#2215055@0)
                    • yes. they think most of the great works in the traditional course were written by White Male. So they want to add more female authors, more books from other parts of the world, etc... -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2215062@0)
                    • in Taiwan, they are also start to rewrite their textbooks, emphasizing more native works, reduce the materials on Chinese classics, same for the civil servant exams. sigh.......... -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2215071@0)
                      • 这个讨论多有意思，希望你能给我们带来更多的insight。 -lifesucks(板儿爷,粪清,古典垃圾); 2005-4-1 (#2215608@0)
              • 你确实说得不对, 多查几个学校吧. 虽然不一定课程的名称直接是: "Acient Greece and Rome", 但讲western civilization history的课程绝对有. 我觉得你太偏颇了, -sunny_may(sunny_may); 2005-4-1 {95} (#2215837@0)
                我同意这里的年轻人对人文学科没啥兴趣, 国内也一样啊, 但说学校完全不提供这样的课程, 这是不客观的.
                • Maybe I was not clear. What I meant is a a course that focuses on classic works from Western Europe and the US. -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 {292} (#2216013@0)
                  The reason I called it Western Civilization History is because that is what it was called at University of Chicago ("Introduction to Western Civilization", to be exact). I am sure there are history and other humanity courses in high school, but not the kind that emphasize classical works.
        • white males are in the power position, this is undoubted fact, to pay more attention to the minorities is reasonable, I do not think 女权及反种族歧视运动 requests the school deleted the 西方文明史的课程 -table(桌子来了); 2005-4-1 (#2215086@0)
          • well, i don't know if anyone requested, but for sure there was heavy pressure for being politically correct -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2215102@0)
          • in any case, i recommend you read the book "The Closing of American Mind" -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2215132@0)
      • 我觉得老音乐迷不灌水的时候，写出的回贴都是精华，各位意下如何~ ^o^ 就是希望看到这样有内容的回复，少一点八卦，多一些个人感受~ -lifesucks(板儿爷,粪清,古典垃圾); 2005-4-1 (#2215602@0)
        • haha. 但没有八卦的往往如石沉大海, 而有八卦的就象在烧开的油锅上洒水. :) -klassische(老音乐迷); 2005-4-1 (#2216155@0)
        • 同意你的看法，我也很欣赏“老音乐迷”的认真和学识， 尽管我做不到， 但是一定努力， 努力再做不到， 就再努力~~~~实在做不到， 就请“老音乐迷”“能者多劳”了~~~：）） -njzy("王朔"); 2005-4-3 (#2219516@0)
    • up!!好贴岂能跌入深谷！！ -kelly_clarkson(~~~笑遍天下~~~); 2005-4-27 (#2264614@0)

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